Spartan's Corinthian Club

[Dakkar]

Is anyone else's LGS vastly unhappy with Spartan's new Corinthian Club cash-grab? (For those unaware, its a paid-membership club for low shipping and 15% off all direct Spartan Store purchases)

Our local owner is seriously considering dropping all Spartan products, as now they're actively undercutting his own sales. It's one thing bad enough when companies like FFG or Wyrd hold yearly sales to clear inventory. But this is a deliberate and ongoing change to the Spartan business model (which already has issues...)

I kinda have to agree with him.  I wish Neil or someone Spartan would be at Adepticon to discuss.
It almost feels like they're cashing out on overstock to buy the new rumored IP license...

Spartan-Faith is at a low today.

[Ruckdog]

Wow, with everything I've had going on the last couple of weeks, this flew right past me. Thanks for bringing it up for discussion! I should probably preface this by saying that I have been doing a lot of my gaming at home lately, so that may well be coloring my response.

Hmmm...on the face of it, I can understand your store owner's frustration. It definitely seems that Spartan is trying to incentivize direct ordering from them over buying through an LGS. An important thing to know would be how the Corinthian discount compares to the wholesale prices offered to stores and distributors by Spartan. A quick check of The War Store suggests that discount is a bit more than 15%.

Here's the thing...I've seen multiple stores that have either cut back or eliminated their Spartan stock in store. I've also repeatedly been told by store owners that they have had trouble getting stock through their distributor (not just for Spartan items, either). So, this might well be an attempt to overcome some of these distribution and availability problems. It certainly doesn't strike me as a "cash-grab" at any rate.

[Landlubber]

The other thing is the shipping. I haven't done the math, but international shipping isn't cheap, so unless you're breaking the 100 (British) pound limit to get free shipping, the 15% discount might not be worth it for non-UK customers.

Ruckdog, regarding distributor issues...one store in our area here stopped carrying Spartan products because their distributor stopped carrying the products (probably also coupled with a lack of players at the store, so I guess there was no incentive for them to find a distributor who DOES carry their products). My normal game store carries Spartan products, but I typically won't see new releases until they've been out 2-3 weeks--even if I pre-order them. This doesn't bother me all that much, but I have noticed it.

I don't if the Corinthian Club thing is a cash grab or not...like Ruckdog said, it could be Spartan's way of circumventing the distributor issue. Now, I know nothing about running a business or publishing and distributing a game, so I don't know if there are other ways Spartan could fix the distributor issues (if indeed this is the problem) without circumventing them (which is what we assume they are doing). I also don't know how our issues in the US stack against, say, Germany or Australia. Maybe it's game popularity? Spartan is still a relatively unknown game in the US, I think. There was at least one game store in this area when I moved here whose staff had never heard of the company.

[Dakkar]

Spartan is still a relatively unknown game in the US, I think. There was at least one game store in this area when I moved here whose staff had never heard of the company.

If their long term strategy is to move from wholesale distributors to direct sales, they'll stay an unknown company. Not the smart or sustainable approach for getting HALO out there as a well-known game property.

As a demo guy, if there's no boxes on shelves then there's little reason to do demos or tourneys. Especially when and LGS might then be, "Why should we give you promo space for a game that we can't carry?"

[Ruckdog]

Valid points, and I can't say I disagree with you. However, we have to remember this is all just speculation. We don't really know what Spartan's objective is for this promotion. This may only be an attempt by Spartan to provide some reward for those gamers that consistently order through them already, rather than to undercut brick and mortar stores; that goes back to the wholesale discount thing I was talking about earlier. I have no way to prove this, and it's just my speculation, but I don't think this will ultimately hurt brick and mortars all that much. It won't help them either though, which is still somewhat troubling.

This seems to be a "chicken and the egg" problem; Stores won't carry Spartan Games because no one there plays them, and no one plays them at the store because stock isn't available.

[Dakkar]

This seems to be a "chicken and the egg" problem; Stores won't carry Spartan Games because no one there plays them, and no one plays them at the store because stock isn't available.

Actually, our LGS made quite a large dive into all the Spartan lines over the past 2 years, but few have been buying.
They've been frustrated by the local lack of traction. And this is with the owner being a HUGE fan of 6 or 10mm games!
-- DW started strong, but early perception that FSA and Antarticans were OP killed some participation.
-- Planetfall had a similar big launch, but then early Relthoza OP issues hampered it.
-- One unfortunate thing is just as I think we were getting some traction, X-Wing displaced the "Spartan Night" from Wednesdays to Mondays (when I couldn't support, until recently).
-- Another frustration specific to Planetfall is the "No Pictures" boxes. Really awkward packaging.

And whether Spartan is trying to "reward customers" or increase cash-flow, it simply adds to the retailers competition that's already tough against the online discounters. So from a business perspective, why support games that can't achieve sales in their store?
I'll say this for our LGS - they've stayed in business since 2000, and outlasted every game store in the state that isn't a Hobbytown. And they've provided 60% or more of their square footage as open gaming space since then, and never charged for it. In fact they were the FIRST to do so.
I think they've done that by a few simple rules, that I've observed to be:
-- Maintain Margin on sales, meaning NO DISCOUNTS. Only exception being stock clearance sales when a product is low enough to have its shelf space reduced (as DW recently was).
-- Support Local Games Auction, twice a year. We get to recycle stuff, and all the money that changes hands translates into sales.
-- Track games sales against who plays what in the back room. Give Support to the games that sustain sales, less so to those that die off after a few good tries. (For example, Warmachine and Hordes get active play groups, but they've never generated sales because everyone turns to the online retailers as "standard"  - and that's exactly why I stopped active support. The local players actively disappoint me)

Anyways, you see our dilemma. This LGS has been the bastion of mini games locally for 16 years. If they ditch Spartan, its not without just business cause.

[Ruckdog]

Anyways, you see our dilemma. This LGS has been the bastion of mini games locally for 16 years. If they ditch Spartan, its not without just business cause.

Dale, I feel your pain. I had similar experiences to yours a few years ago, which was the last time I was regularly playing at stores. My "chicken and the egg" comment is more properly related to the observations I've made the few times I've gotten out to play in stores since. When you look at a store's inventory, and all you can find for DW are three EotBS armored starter sets, it makes you wonder. Of course, it's also possible that these stores were already on the "downslope" after the initial wave of excitement faded.

I've also seen and felt the impact of a game losing momentum among a community. Back in 2010, I nearly had a group going for Firestorm, but that evaporated once the first teasers for DW dropped! It seems to me that folks like us that consider one or more of Spartan's games to be our primary game are still a small minority, and we are competing in an ever more-crowded marketplace for our fellow gamers' secondary or even tertiary game slot.

Back to your original topic, I certainly have no right to judge the management of your local store, and from what you've said they certainly seem to be going a bit above and beyond a good-faith effort to support Spartan. And I freely admit that this Corinthian Club idea, at best, does nothing to help the FLGS. One would hope that Spartan has some other initiatives up its sleeve that will; it might be worth providing Spartan Beth with that feedback.

[Dakkar]

it might be worth providing Spartan Beth with that feedback.

Post-Adepticon, I plan to do so along with any other "mega-meta" observations.

[Ryjak]

 Ultimately, I think this is a sign of transition for the miniatures wargaming hobby in the United States.   Basically, if you want SG products and you live in the US, it is much easier to buy directly from SG.  For example, my FLGS literally cannot order any of the FSA Taskforce-related boxes; their distributor simply refuses to carry them.  Other game stores are closing due to lack of sales, like Game Parlor. It seems the only way a game store can operate today is if they sell crappy games like Games Workshop, X-Wing, and Magic: The Gathering.   Each of these games as a business model which has nothing to do about game balance.

Ultimately,  I expect game stores to go the way of comic book stores and baseball trading card stores.   People will still be playing games, and will start gaming clubs like they do in the UK.   I would start a DC miniatures war gaming club in a heartbeat, but I have no idea how to find a venue for the ridiculous amount of space tabletop wargames require.

[Dakkar]

I started tabletop gaming back when there were few stores, no retail store and play space, and finding wargaming space was quite difficult. It's not a big leap to credit the HUGE expansion of boardgames, mini games, and RPGS over the past 25 years to exactly the boom of the LGS, and those that offer table space.

I think any retreat to those pre-boom days is a huge mistake for any Game company or area that "lets" their LGS die. Spartan is surrendering to the British model (where space economics dictate clubs, not stores), but they're going to pooch their US market altogether, just when they should be growing it. Distributors are dropping them both because sales have not sustained, and things like the Corinthian Club. Distributors need to see positive steps to enhance business, not negative.

Reasons why:
1) Properly run stores grow community, create trends, and bring in young and old. Clubs tend towards exclusivity, certain age groups, and grognards start to dominate - its a natural progression even from noble intentions. Our 90's game club, Dead Generals never had one female member, nor member under age 20. And while certain folks were involved, you had to pass a test to join!

2) Stores can support multiple games and multiple nights of the week. At our current LGS, if I had no relationship and was inclined, I could literally game every single night of the week in a game I'm into. Sunday- Historicals; Monday - Spartan; Tuesday - Malifaux; Wed - Attack Wing, X-Wing, Sigmar, WoK; Thurs - Guidlball and Infinity; Friday - 40K, BFG, etc ; Saturday: Boardgames, Warmachine.
At a game club, it's ONE night a week. You can't make that night, tough. And one game will tend to dominate at a time, simply to ensure a pool of opponents. This was fine back when there were only a few games anyways, and the main debate was between GW or Historicals. In today's divergent market, the outcome will either be lots of losers, and back to only a few monopolized games, or lots of balkanization and disputes and splitting game clubs into smaller and smaller coteries.

3) LGS's can provide mass space for tourneys, reliable terrain, and support the impulse purchase.
Space-wise for clubs, free space is RARE these days. Rents have risen while wages have not, so finding a large enough space with tables is hard. I look at metas now without LGS's: In Toronto, they've found nothing, and some I know haven't gamed outside their homes in months. In NH, they've been gaming in a pub with all the hassles and noise that entails. Our old club used the cafeteria of a Retirement Home - but we couldn't do that today because of insurance reasons. The public spaces in town, libraries and police common rooms, offer about 4 tables; while our LGS offers up to 18. Coffee shops and bookstores offer coffee-shop sized tables, and many close by 8 or 9.
I've lost track of how many games I became obsessed with following impulse purchase. Clubs offer none save what I get with Amazon 2-day shipping. If you've never contrasted the two, its not the same.

LGS's aren't closing because of some inevitable business trend. They close because WE, the players, are choosing to let them. Kickstarter and online discounting had become so prevalent in some places (areas in aforementioned Toronto and New Hampshire) that the link between closing LGS and those consumer habits are clear.
It's inevitable change, you might say. It's free market forces. It's the future, and for the best. I say thee nay. Amazon is not free market - it's a monopolizing bully that reduces choice, not enhances it.
First music stores closed due to discount sales and file-shares. There's nowhere to find out what's GOOD, that isn't a club or and ad. The result is few musicians can make a living without a lifetime of touring. The quality of music declines. And we trade the likes of David Bowie and Prince for Nikki Minaj and Justin Bieber.
Then book stores close because of e-books and Amazon. Books are easier to get than ever, but there are fewer face-to-face socializing spaces involving books. What initially seems like it should enable bigger readership results in the lowest percentage of Americans who read for pleasure...EVER. And ask any author you might now about the business - no one is happy.
Game stores may be next, but only if we let it be defined by the pricing over the experience.
If we, or Spartan, or any other manufacturer limit ourselves to thinking small, then our gaming world can only get smaller. And that would be a Bad Thing.
Here endeth the rant... ;-)

[Landlubber]

But it was a GOOD rant, Dale. 

I agree with your points, and Ryjack I agree with yours too. I guess the best thing we can do is to keep playing the games in our LGSs, continue to purchase (when possible) from the LGS, and hold the occasional demo day.

Supporting the LGS is one of my core tenets as a gamer. They give us a place to play, so it only makes sense to me to buy from them. I do not have, nor do I have the inclination to build, a suitable gaming table at my house--and even if I did, the only place it would fit would be the garage, which is OK in the summer, but not so much in the winter. So the game store is a "must" for me to continue to play the games I like to play.

[Ryjak]

I'm not saying I like how consumers are making their local game store go out of business, but that's where all this seems to be going.  For example, I finally decided to purchase Codex (NOT a Collectable Card Game) through backer-kit, instead of from a LGS, for two reasons.

1) I don't expect any LGS to carry it
2) I doubt anyone playing Magic or similar will know about it

So I'm hoping to start demoing it, showing people what a good CCG could actually look like, and drum up enough interest so the LGS will start carrying it, and eventually hold events.  And if none of this ever happens, at least I have a phenomenal game I can play for years, at about 40% off retail.