Author Topic: Dropfleet Commander  (Read 17657 times)

Ruckdog

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3066
  • Number of Times Thanked: 189
  • Dive! Dive!
    • View Profile
    • Man Battlestations!
Dropfleet Commander
« on: June 30, 2016, 08:05:24 am »
Now that the game is nearly here, I thought it might be a good idea to get the ball rolling on a discussion thread.

How many of you out there are eagerly awaiting your Hawk spaceship goodies? 8)

Landlubber

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
  • Number of Times Thanked: 64
    • View Profile
Re: Dropfleet Commander
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2016, 01:49:40 pm »
I'm eagerly awaiting MarkyMark to get his Dropfleet Commander stuff so he can teach me how to play. Does that count?
"Sometimes, you gotta roll the hard six."--Commander Adama

markymark1970

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 529
  • Number of Times Thanked: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Dropfleet Commander
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2016, 02:32:40 pm »
I am, very much so...  Hopefully they don't just occupy another box on my shelves, along with everything else. 

Need to pick one of the four factions and start assembling/painting it shortly after I get it.  Start one game system on the right foot, I guess.

Ruck, got a favorite faction (by design)?

BrdingPrty1

  • Lieutenant J.G.
  • *
  • Posts: 61
  • Number of Times Thanked: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Dropfleet Commander
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2016, 05:31:27 pm »
MMrk70,

I'm in for the following:

Lt level pledge: PHR, rulebook.
Extra PHR starter fleet.
PHR BattleCrzr.

No surprise to Gregg.. I'm sure  ;).



Ruckdog

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3066
  • Number of Times Thanked: 189
  • Dive! Dive!
    • View Profile
    • Man Battlestations!
Re: Dropfleet Commander
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2016, 07:08:00 pm »
I am, very much so...  Hopefully they don't just occupy another box on my shelves, along with everything else. 

Need to pick one of the four factions and start assembling/painting it shortly after I get it.  Start one game system on the right foot, I guess.

Ruck, got a favorite faction (by design)?

I would have to say that its the UCM, followed closely by the PHR ;)

Landlubber

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
  • Number of Times Thanked: 64
    • View Profile
Re: Dropfleet Commander
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2016, 11:38:32 pm »
MMrk70,

I'm in for the following:

Lt level pledge: PHR, rulebook.
Extra PHR starter fleet.
PHR BattleCrzr.

No surprise to Gregg.. I'm sure  ;).

I'm just surprised you were able to restrain yourself to only the Lieutenant level! Unlike MarkyMark, who chose the "Grand Master Excelsior of All the Fleets" level.  :D
"Sometimes, you gotta roll the hard six."--Commander Adama

markymark1970

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 529
  • Number of Times Thanked: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Dropfleet Commander
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2016, 02:38:55 am »
I am, very much so...  Hopefully they don't just occupy another box on my shelves, along with everything else. 

Need to pick one of the four factions and start assembling/painting it shortly after I get it.  Start one game system on the right foot, I guess.

Ruck, got a favorite faction (by design)?

I would have to say that its the UCM, followed closely by the PHR ;)

I have to say I like the Scourge the least, but they are still cool.  Cannot decide on the other three, will have to be in my hot little hands to decide.

markymark1970

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 529
  • Number of Times Thanked: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Dropfleet Commander
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2016, 02:39:38 am »
MMrk70,

I'm in for the following:

Lt level pledge: PHR, rulebook.
Extra PHR starter fleet.
PHR BattleCrzr.

No surprise to Gregg.. I'm sure  ;).

I'm just surprised you were able to restrain yourself to only the Lieutenant level! Unlike MarkyMark, who chose the "Grand Master Excelsior of All the Fleets" level.  :D

Owner of all, master/painter of none...

Dakkar

  • Rear Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1175
  • Number of Times Thanked: 25
  • Mobilis in Mobili
    • View Profile
Re: Dropfleet Commander
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2016, 12:04:30 am »
http://www.gadzooksgaming.com/collections/dropfleet-commander

Damn... I'm super tempted on that box set...
"History is-a made at night. Character is what you are in the dark!"
-- Lord John Whorfin, Red Lectroid Leader

Landlubber

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
  • Number of Times Thanked: 64
    • View Profile
Re: Dropfleet Commander
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2016, 12:18:32 am »
I'm really interested to see how this game plays. Really like the ship designs.
"Sometimes, you gotta roll the hard six."--Commander Adama

Ryjak

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 143
  • Number of Times Thanked: 2
    • View Profile
    • Ops Center
Re: Dropfleet Commander
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2016, 07:02:19 am »
We shared space with the Dropzone Commander folks at NOVA, and the lead clearly loves DZC, as he purchased a ton of the pre-painted lasercut buildings from 4Ground (I think).  He ran the Dropfleet Commander demos at Gencon, and unfortunately, he was not a fan of the system.  The main issues he had were:

1) Complexity of shooting.  While the Target Signature concept is very thematic (I'm sure Ruckdog will love it), the demo host said it was very complicated and no one was able to pick it up during the demos.  Because he was constantly helping people figure it out, he didn't do much else.
2)  While the various 'altitudes' are interesting (Atmospheric, Low Orbit, High Orbit) he felt they just made the complex Target Signature math even more complicated, while not adding meaningful depth, but maybe he didn't grasp the tactical reasons for switching levels.
3)  Ultimately, the main thing that bothered him was simply this:  Dropfleet Commander is a spaceship wargame, but the space combat portion isn't how you actually win the game.  Instead, what matters is what is happening on the Ground game level.  Both players start at High Orbit, and are trying to simultaneously insert ground forces on an undefended planet surface.  You win the game by capturing more ground objectives than your opponent, so the Ground vs Ground combat is ridiculously important (and extremely simple) while the space combat doesn't seem to matter at all (and is very complicated.

I expected he wanted something like Firestorm Armada's System Wars: Attacker/Defender spaceship scenarios where the battle can be used to inform the players on how they will play the Ground Combat game.   I really like how System Wars addresses this: play essentially a normal Firestorm Armada Scenario, and your final Battlelog can be spent to gain perks during your next Planetfall game... Or vice-versa.

Ray of Hope:  On the plus side, it sounded like he has some influence on the game's design, and the extensive feedback he provided from the Gencon demos might be used to make some adjustments before launch.  I'll also admit I like how DFC feels more thematic than FSA.  FSA is really a WWII naval combat game, as few of the game mechanics reflect the outer space theme.  From movement to firing to damage to boarding, the entire game could be played using Topside miniatures WWII ships, and it would play just fine while feeling thematic.  Just remove FSA Boarding and Shunt machanics, and you're set for a fantastic naval game.

Landlubber

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
  • Number of Times Thanked: 64
    • View Profile
Re: Dropfleet Commander
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2016, 12:47:58 am »
Thanks for the rundown Ryjak. I was kind of afraid of that, the whole connection to DZC, I just didn't realize it was so pervasive in DFC. Now that I think about it, though, while the "altitude" mechanic seems kinda cool, it would only make sense when fighting above a planetary body.

Does it seem like there is any way to play the game in a non-orbital setting, where it is just ship-to-ship combat? Or is it too tied to the goal of orbital insertion of ground forces?

Something tells me that I'm going to end up with some of the models either way--the UCM and PHR ships alone are too shiny not to have in The Collection.
"Sometimes, you gotta roll the hard six."--Commander Adama

Ruckdog

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3066
  • Number of Times Thanked: 189
  • Dive! Dive!
    • View Profile
    • Man Battlestations!
Re: Dropfleet Commander
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2016, 12:53:27 am »
Thanks for getting his thoughts! He might very well have been the one that gave me my demo at Gencon, and I didn't recognize him  :-[.

I think that the altitude mechanic and the ground objective mechanic are intended to be DFC's distinguishing characteristic. I like the concept, and the execution in the demo seemed decent. The Target Signature stuff did take some getting used to. @Landlubber: I specifically asked the question about non-orbital settings at Gencon, and the answer was No. Like I said, I think the orbital setting is being used as a way to try and break DFC out from the pack.

As an aside, I really don't feel like FSA feels specifically like a WWII combat game...to many of the mechanics just don't correlate, and the ships are statted very differently than one might expect if the game were trying to emulate WWII. In the sense that it is a primarily 2D game, it does feel a bit more like a "wet" navy game at times than a space game. However, that is true of most space combat games, I've found. And, it's not particularly a bad thing IMO ;).

Ruckdog

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3066
  • Number of Times Thanked: 189
  • Dive! Dive!
    • View Profile
    • Man Battlestations!
Re: Dropfleet Commander
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2016, 05:33:51 pm »
Something tells me that I'm going to end up with some of the models either way--the UCM and PHR ships alone are too shiny not to have in The Collection.

You know, re-reading your post, I think that is an important point as well; the models they are making for this game are quite lovely, and I bet they will find their way into other games as well. Traditionally, it seems that space combat gamers have always grabbed their favorite models to use with whatever rule set is in vogue (I once faced a Klingon fleet being used as Sorylian proxies in a game of FSA!).

Landlubber

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
  • Number of Times Thanked: 64
    • View Profile
Re: Dropfleet Commander
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2016, 11:30:41 pm »
Well, you know my OCD won't let me proxy models.... :(

So...a couple of thoughts on this. On one hand, I understand the need for companies to make their games stand out--whether through rules, models, settings, whatever. A fleet-scale space combat game that takes place in orbit around planets is interesting and there isn't anything out there like it right now. We could play Halo: Fleet Battles or Firestorm Armada in that setting, but neither game has rules governing how ships deal with combat and maneuver in orbit over a planetary body (not that we couldn't gin some up).

On the other hand, however, I think they're severely limiting themselves if they DON'T have options for the different fleets to engage in non-orbital settings. Because if the rules only support combat in orbit (which again is an interesting mechanic), it seems like they're trying to entice people who already play DZC to get into DFC, as opposed to enticing new people into the becoming Dropfleet/Dropzone players--especially if, as Ryjak stated, the ship-to-ship combat isn't the main focus of a Dropfleet game.

Which is perplexing, since they're coming out of the gate with four factions of very unique-looking ships. That's an awful lot of trouble to go to just to make a game that merely supports (almost as a sideshow, from Ryjack's notes) one of their other games. I get that they're trying to be unique, but it seems as if they're shooting themselves in the foot.

Just my $0.02.
"Sometimes, you gotta roll the hard six."--Commander Adama