Kurse You Kickstarter

[BrdingPrty1]

First, Dropfleet Commander.

Second, Fleet Commander-Genesis.

And now this!


Astivar Collective

I was going to pass on this one until I saw the ships above!

The "COLLECTOR" strikes again!   

[Fracas]

Link?

[BrdingPrty1]

@Fracas

Fracas sounds like what happens when I try and post Links.   

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wdm/shattered-void-the-sci-fi-dogfighting-tabletop-war

For the ship pics:
http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/2016/review-shattered-void/

Hope this works.

[Landlubber]

Well well well, looks like someone wants a piece of the tabletop starfighter combat market that X-Wing has tied up so nicely...

This looks interesting. The EEF fighter designs are OK, but I really do like the Vitruvian and Astivar ships. From watching the trailer on Kickstarter, the gameplay looks to be a little more complicated than X-Wing--makes me wonder if they'll siphon off some of that crowd, or if this will appeal to a different kind of gamer.

I'm curious about the damage decks. It wasn't explained in the video about which damage deck you draw from. I would guess it's based on the weapons that you're firing at your opponent. If so, that's a neat mechanic, but will add a little bit of "bookkeeping" to the game.

From a gameplay standpoint, those little tokens that signify what maneuver you're going to use, and that large maneuver template, look to be somewhat problematic. When you have several ships in very close proximity (something that happens all the time in X-Wing), it looks like it will be difficult to use that template without bumping other ships. And I can see some people having a hard time picking up those little round tokens off the fighter's base to reveal their maneuver (although I guess you could just place it on the mat behind the ship).

Hate to keep drawing comparisons to X-Wing, but it's the Reigning King of Tabletop Starfighter Combat right now, so those comparisons are probably inevitable. Speaking of which, that second link to the German website has some pictures farther down on the page of some of the Shattered Void starfighters along with fighters from X-Wing and Aeronautica Imperialis. They all look to be in roughly the same size range.

Their Kickstarter campaign is humming along nicely, it would seem. BrdingPrty, thanks for posting this. Did you pledge? I'm tempted to jump in, but I think I'll hold for now until we get more information on gameplay.

[Dakkar]

Sad part is, X-Wing should not be king of dogfighting games - there's just too many internal imbalances and limited design space that leads to rampant "net-decking".

But then maybe I'm just griping because I have fonder memories of SILENT DEATH.

[Quickdraw]

Looks interesting. X-Wing does have a pretty good corner on the market right now though.

[Landlubber]

Sad part is, X-Wing should not be king of dogfighting games - there's just too many internal imbalances and limited design space that leads to rampant "net-decking".

But then maybe I'm just griping because I have fonder memories of SILENT DEATH.

Good points, but it does have several things going for it: 1) Star Wars, 2) well-painted, pre-painted miniatures, 3) Star Wars, 4) an easy-to-learn rule set, and 5) Star Wars. Not saying it's right, I'm just saying it is. That being said, X-Wing to me is similar to bowling: it's fun to play if you're playing with people who don't take it too seriously, but as soon as a "pro" shows up, it stops being fun because you just get hammered. That's been my experience, anyway.

The Shattered Void rules are available to download for free from their Kickstarter page. Standard caveats apply, these rules may not be the final edition, etc. What I'm reading so far has me interested. I like that you move a ship and shoot, and your target can choose to react or not.  I also am intrigued that the miniatures are not pre-painted. That works well for an established IP like Star Wars or Star Trek, but this is not an established IP, so I feel you have a little more leeway (and yes, I understand you can repaint the SW miniatures if you want to).

[BrdingPrty1]

@LLbr: You're welcome.Not pledged yet. Ready to go as soon as the Astivar Collective ships become official. Pledge Gregg make me proud!!

@Dale: Silent Death is still out there. The Minis and rule books are still available. I purchased a few of the mins several months ago when they were having a 20% off sale. The owner goes by BlackWidowPilot on the TMP/TheMiniaturesPage and SCN/StarshipCombatNews forums.

@MrkyMrk70: U Know U Want To!!

[Landlubber]

Mmmm...maybe. I'd like to see what stretch goals are unlocked over the next couple weeks. If they continue to raise money at the rate they're going (they're about 97% funded with 25 days still in the campaign), they're going to need to pony up more stretch goals than they currently have available. Right now it looks as if they only have two stretch goals remaining (the Astivar are unlocked now, it looks like)--Wave 1 and Wave 2 ships, and I didn't see anywhere on the page when those will unlock. The Astivar were unlocked at roughly the $13k pledge level; hopefully it won't be that high to unlock the Wave 1 & 2 ships, since they aren't new factions, just new ships for the existing factions.

I like the aesthetic for all three factions, probably the Vitruvians the most, but that EEF Jaguar light gunship in the Wave 1 ships is pretty sweet.

After reading through the rules, the game looks fun. Could probably print off the templates and give it a test run using X-Wing miniatures. There is a bit of bookkeeping involved--pilot skill ratings change based on maneuvers executed, capacitor charge changes over the course of the turn, etc. The inclusion of the plastic stat trackers for each ship in the Lieutenant pledge level will help out with that. It does look as if gameplay won't be quite as smooth as X-Wing, but will be a little more in-depth. Movement reminds me of Aeronautica Imperialis (the ONE game of AI I have played, that is), except there is no altitude change.

I did a little research on Silent Death...I'm not a big fan of hex movement for miniatures games. The ship models look cool though.

[Ruckdog]

So, I watched the background and gameplay videos, and I have the following observations:

1. The fluff strikes me as Firefly with Aliens. Which isn't a bad thing!

2. The movement system seems like a hybrid between the FlightPath engine and more traditional miniature game movement. Overall, it seems solid, though the odd looking maneuver template strikes me as bit gimmicky, perhaps.

2a. The little number tokens they are shown to be placing on the bases for maneuver selection of the ships seem a bit fiddly!

3. Shooting and damage, like movement, seem to be an evolution of the X-wing/Attack Wing system

4. It's not a D6 system!

5. The bases used buck the trend of putting a lot of info on the base, which is interesting. The shape of the bases are still unique, though.

6. The miniatures they are showing are OK...not terrible, but not great. The detail and designs look more like they come from a board game than a minis game to me TBH.

Overall, this looks like a solid offering, but it is probably a pass for me. Part of is that my main interest is not in dog fighting games. I already own X-wing and Attack Wing, and this doesn't seem to do anything drastically different or better than either of those games.

Sad part is, X-Wing should not be king of dogfighting games - there's just too many internal imbalances and limited design space that leads to rampant "net-decking".

But then maybe I'm just griping because I have fonder memories of SILENT DEATH.

It's funny...I've always heard that X-wing balance is relatively good compared to the hot mess that Star Trek Attack Wing has apparently become!

[Dakkar]

X-Wing to me is similar to bowling: it's fun to play if you're playing with people who don't take it too seriously, but as soon as a "pro" shows up, it stops being fun because you just get hammered.

Excellent analogy!

@Dale: Silent Death is still out there. The Minis and rule books are still available. I purchased a few of the mins several months ago when they were having a 20% off sale. The owner goes by BlackWidowPilot on the TMP/TheMiniaturesPage and SCN/StarshipCombatNews forums.

A lot of good old stuff is still available, but without a "live" game product, its damn hard to get someone to play against. :-)
Also, dead games tend not to evolve or resolve issues.

I've always heard that X-wing balance is relatively good compared to the hot mess that Star Trek Attack Wing has apparently become!

Better than STAW open-format by far, and the meta has been shifting rapidly. But still a "net-deck" experience in competition. It still not balanced in the way we think of Firestorm or even revised BFG.
I've also noticed that the X-Wing design space centers on 2-4 Attack Dice, 2-4 Defense Dice. STAW effectively doubles that range. But within those limits, you really lack a lot of design space for distinction between ships. I prefer systems with a little more crunch. (And no, that has nothing to do with once being a TOG INTERCEPTOR player...) ;-)

[Landlubber]

Dale, can you explain "net-decking"? I think I know what it means, but I'm not sure.

BTW, I use that same analogy for volleyball.

[Ruckdog]

Dale, can you explain "net-decking"? I think I know what it means, but I'm not sure.

BTW, I use that same analogy for volleyball.

I've always understood the term to mean that someone gets online and looks up a build that has been successfully used in other competitions, copies it exactly, and then uses it in another event. A common problem across all game systems that have a large and active competitive organized play scene, like 40k and Magic. See also "net-listing."

[Dakkar]

Dale, can you explain "net-decking"? I think I know what it means, but I'm not sure.

As Ruckdog explains, but with the added clarification that NetDecks exist because there are widely acknowledged builds that overpower most to all comers. And tourneys and events can bog down to who brought what Scissor for which Paper for which Rock. And anyone running a "fun" list (even if solid) can be left in the dirt.

[Landlubber]

OK, not quite the process I thought, but same outcome. Seems awfully lazy to just copy other "winning" lists. I mean, I've solicited advice before on how to beat one faction with another faction (in DW and Firestorm Armada), but I've never copied a complete fleet list.

I have experience with this. Participated in a store X-Wing tourney a few years ago...ran the "Red Squadron" list, all the named Red Squadron pilots I could cram into 100 points. Antilles, Skywalker, Dreis, and Darklighter. No upgrades for any of them, because I didn't have the points. Got crushed in every round. I thought it was a creative list, but creativity doesn't matter in that setting.