Author Topic: SPARTAN CLOSING  (Read 24073 times)

Fracas

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Re: SPARTAN CLOSING
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2017, 05:55:33 pm »
I wonder if anyone will buy them out
Firestorm: Aquan, Directorate, Retholza, Hawker (FsA)/ Terran (FsPf), RSN (FsA)/ Dindrenzi (FsPf)
DW: EotBS, FSA, PLC.
Warmaster: Kislev, Khemri, Dwarves,
BFG: Pacification Fleet (IN), Tau Expeditionary (SG), Battlefleet (Chaos), Kher-Ys Corsairs, Crusade Fleet (IN),
LotR: Khand, Gondor, Mordor

Charbe86

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Re: SPARTAN CLOSING
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2017, 06:02:05 pm »
Steamlord, there are other Fleet-based games out there...Dropfleet Commander, Star Wars Armada...

Unfortunately there's nothing quite like firestorm or dystopian wars on the market right now.  I noticed they're asking for expressions of intrest in assets and stock, does anyone know if that's the only way to get hold of models now?
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Spartan

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Re: SPARTAN CLOSING
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2017, 06:21:24 pm »
I only "big" company that I see that would buy them out is Warlord Games. Aside from Blood Skies, FSA & DW doesn't really seem to be part of their stable.

Landlubber

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Re: SPARTAN CLOSING
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2017, 06:51:25 pm »
@Steamlord, agreed, that's what drew me to Spartan's game systems in the first place.

For those interested, as of right now, it looks like Game Kastle has some Spartan stock--if you're looking to round out fleets or whatever. I just ordered some Halo Fleet and Ground stuff from them.

https://www.gamekastle.com/online/index.php?m=list&v=360
"Sometimes, you gotta roll the hard six."--Commander Adama

erloas

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Re: SPARTAN CLOSING
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2017, 08:58:18 pm »
I might look at picking up some things when they hit clearance, but I'm not sure.  Sunk quite a bit into the KS so haven't been playing to spend much on anything else for quite a while, and now that I'm not even getting that... well it is just disappointing.
Was really wanting those LoC models just to paint.

I could see a very bad illness taking down a privately held company in the USA, though I thought the UK didn't have those problems.
But yeah, it just seemed like a perfect storm of the wrong things happening at the wrong time.  Given that they even bothered to launch the FSA kickstarter and Neil's recent involvement in the forums makes me think they thought there was a way through their troubles but something else happened to end it.  Unless maybe the FSA kickstarter was their attempt at showing a potential investor the strength of the brand and it failing to fund right away said "there is too much uncertainty in the market to give you a loan extension/more money/etc."

There was two people on the FB post that expressed interest in potentially buying the rights but there is no way to know how much legitimacy there is to that idea.

This could be my exit of the TT gaming scene.  No way I'm going back to GW and 28mm infantry is just overdone for me.  But there doesn't seem to be much of anything else out there.

Fracas

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Re: SPARTAN CLOSING
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2017, 01:13:03 am »
This could be my exit of the TT gaming scene.  No way I'm going back to GW and 28mm infantry is just overdone for me.  But there doesn't seem to be much of anything else out there.

Same
I will play with what I have and just bought
Firestorm: Aquan, Directorate, Retholza, Hawker (FsA)/ Terran (FsPf), RSN (FsA)/ Dindrenzi (FsPf)
DW: EotBS, FSA, PLC.
Warmaster: Kislev, Khemri, Dwarves,
BFG: Pacification Fleet (IN), Tau Expeditionary (SG), Battlefleet (Chaos), Kher-Ys Corsairs, Crusade Fleet (IN),
LotR: Khand, Gondor, Mordor

Ruckdog

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Re: SPARTAN CLOSING
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2017, 08:56:07 am »
A new update was just posted on the KS page:

Quote
Kickstarter
 
82
Update
Posted by Spartan Games (Creator)
To all backers of this project, we sincerely regret the recent announcement of the closure of our company and those impacted including people waiting for products from this project. We hope you understand that our priority yesterday was our staff and then getting a formal statement out to the market. That was shared, via email, with everyone on this project.
As explained in the statement, there are policies in place with payment providers around the world for goods that are not received. Please explore these as appropriate to your payment method and location.
Monday is a public holiday in the UK but on Tuesday we will review the status of the project and, if we are able, continue to ship products to backers. We have stock manufactured; we have softback and hardback rulebooks but are yet to receive personalised rulebooks. For those that have speculated that the demise of our printer may have been untrue, please search online for information about Wheatons Exeter in the UK to see that they did, indeed, close in June.
Those familiar with rules governing the operation of companies will realise that what happens next is now out of our hands and will be managed by others. On a practical point, we may have limited access to shipping services and we only have a very small skeleton staff now. However, you have our commitment as directors that we will do all we can to ship products but we are now directed by others.
Enquiries to the email address given on the announcement (spartangames@mail.com) will be handled as they come in but please bear with us and we manage many things in the coming days.


Landlubber

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Re: SPARTAN CLOSING
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2017, 10:09:17 am »
So it sounds as if there is some hope that we'll get at least some of our stuff. Funny, I just sent an email to that address last night asking them about this. Haven't heard back yet, of course, and I'm sure it'll be awhile before (if) I do. I've got plenty of FSA and RoF models, but it sure would be nice to get those new ones, especially since they'll likely be the last.

I've been following the two Halo game pages on Facebook--people are buying up whatever they can as fast as they can for both games. I wonder if that's happening for DW and FA as well? Although I think there were fewer models on the market for the Halo games than for the other two.
"Sometimes, you gotta roll the hard six."--Commander Adama

Fracas

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Re: SPARTAN CLOSING
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2017, 12:06:22 pm »
I may place an order and see what happens
Firestorm: Aquan, Directorate, Retholza, Hawker (FsA)/ Terran (FsPf), RSN (FsA)/ Dindrenzi (FsPf)
DW: EotBS, FSA, PLC.
Warmaster: Kislev, Khemri, Dwarves,
BFG: Pacification Fleet (IN), Tau Expeditionary (SG), Battlefleet (Chaos), Kher-Ys Corsairs, Crusade Fleet (IN),
LotR: Khand, Gondor, Mordor

You Look Like A Nail

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Re: SPARTAN CLOSING
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2017, 12:59:19 pm »
Given the licensing costs, I would expect this means Halo is dead.  It's not impossible someone might pick up DW and/or FSA as they are the more popular of the home-grown IP.  Both ranges are very big, though, it's a lot to manage.  The rest, I'd have a hard time seeing the math work out.

I'm actually thinking of getting going with the homebrew replacement ruleset for DW I've had kicking around in my head for a while.  The line of models for DW is huge and they're pretty widely available, I would not be surprised at all to see projects like that showing up here and there, or maybe a community driven effort to clean up and maintain the existing Spartan rules.  It's unusual, but look at Epic, it can happen.

erloas

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Re: SPARTAN CLOSING
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2017, 02:02:20 pm »
I would imagine all of the Halo assets default to Microsoft instantly and it would be entirely up to them to sell them again if they see fit.  Although I think some of the Halo models were contracted out because they were plastic and Spartan doesn't have the machinery to do in-house plastics.

The question of the value of the DW and FSA IP is pretty open.  It clearly has a solid, if very niche, market and it doesn't have much for direct competition.  But the thing about gaming systems is that most developers have way more ideas than they have the ability to make them (see Spartan...).  So I would wonder what gaming company would buy someone else's dead baby when they have many ideas of their own that they haven't got out yet.  A lot of the initial work is done, but it would be hard to put your own spin on the system without destroying what value the IP has, the existing players.  Change it too much and it isn't the same game any more, but leaving it the same would make it harder to embrace it as a developer.

Just the ideas from fans on the forums you could see a dozen different direction the game could go if they had their say.

Of course you have some miniature makers, such as Reaper, who are really just in the business of making models and not having their own game systems.  They make generic models in certain genres and let the players do what they will.  There could be some value there for them.
I could also see someone like Catalyst Game Labs take it, they tried to make a game called Leviathans, which seems to be pretty much dead, but a similar theme.  But it is hard to say if that would be a good direction or be at complete conflict.

As an aside to all of that, I would be interested in working through a community based set of rules and ORBATs.  The main issue for me is that while I've got a pretty good idea of game theory and statistics and technical writing, but I just don't have anyone to play with so couldn't do much for actual playtesting.

Fracas

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Re: SPARTAN CLOSING
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2017, 04:04:57 pm »
This site should be mentioned in the response to spartan Facebook and kickstarter
Firestorm: Aquan, Directorate, Retholza, Hawker (FsA)/ Terran (FsPf), RSN (FsA)/ Dindrenzi (FsPf)
DW: EotBS, FSA, PLC.
Warmaster: Kislev, Khemri, Dwarves,
BFG: Pacification Fleet (IN), Tau Expeditionary (SG), Battlefleet (Chaos), Kher-Ys Corsairs, Crusade Fleet (IN),
LotR: Khand, Gondor, Mordor

Fracas

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Re: SPARTAN CLOSING
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2017, 04:06:08 pm »
The thing is besides the rules, which are workable as is
Is the progressively shrinking availability of models
Firestorm: Aquan, Directorate, Retholza, Hawker (FsA)/ Terran (FsPf), RSN (FsA)/ Dindrenzi (FsPf)
DW: EotBS, FSA, PLC.
Warmaster: Kislev, Khemri, Dwarves,
BFG: Pacification Fleet (IN), Tau Expeditionary (SG), Battlefleet (Chaos), Kher-Ys Corsairs, Crusade Fleet (IN),
LotR: Khand, Gondor, Mordor

You Look Like A Nail

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Re: SPARTAN CLOSING
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2017, 05:08:24 pm »
I would imagine all of the Halo assets default to Microsoft instantly and it would be entirely up to them to sell them again if they see fit.  Although I think some of the Halo models were contracted out because they were plastic and Spartan doesn't have the machinery to do in-house plastics.

I haven't seen the paperwork or anything, but usually, the moulds and models would be the property of Spartan Games, but you'd need the license to sell them.  So anybody wanting to resurrect Halo would need to buy the designs/moulds/masters/stock from Spartan, and then sign a licensing deal with Microsoft, and wouldn't be able to do anything with the Spartan properties unless they had it.  MS could always buy that stuff from Spartan and do it themselves but they obviously never would.

The question of the value of the DW and FSA IP is pretty open.  It clearly has a solid, if very niche, market and it doesn't have much for direct competition.  But the thing about gaming systems is that most developers have way more ideas than they have the ability to make them (see Spartan...).  So I would wonder what gaming company would buy someone else's dead baby when they have many ideas of their own that they haven't got out yet.  A lot of the initial work is done, but it would be hard to put your own spin on the system without destroying what value the IP has, the existing players.  Change it too much and it isn't the same game any more, but leaving it the same would make it harder to embrace it as a developer.

There are a lot of companies who wouldn't mind adding those lines to their portfolio, but you'd need someone with enough heft to add a pretty extensive line, who also had lots of capacity and experience in resin casting, and has some money on hand.  I'm not sure who fits that bill.

I think that rewriting the rules to go with the existing models is certainly possible.  Warzone changed the rules and also the models, and I guess they're doing okay with it. As long as you have a well supported product, I would expect people who already have fleets on hand would probably mostly just roll with it.

I expect that an Epic style community rules revamp would be mostly the current ruleset with some tweaks and fixes, because that's the easiest thing to get everyone to agree on.  I would want to start from scratch, myself, as the DW rules have a bunch of issues which are fundamental to the rule concepts (but that's just me).

erloas

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Re: SPARTAN CLOSING
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2017, 06:25:21 pm »
There are a lot of companies who wouldn't mind adding those lines to their portfolio, but you'd need someone with enough heft to add a pretty extensive line, who also had lots of capacity and experience in resin casting, and has some money on hand.  I'm not sure who fits that bill.

I think that rewriting the rules to go with the existing models is certainly possible.  Warzone changed the rules and also the models, and I guess they're doing okay with it. As long as you have a well supported product, I would expect people who already have fleets on hand would probably mostly just roll with it.

I expect that an Epic style community rules revamp would be mostly the current ruleset with some tweaks and fixes, because that's the easiest thing to get everyone to agree on.  I would want to start from scratch, myself, as the DW rules have a bunch of issues which are fundamental to the rule concepts (but that's just me).
Yeah, its really hard to guess what something like that would be worth. You could probably get a reasonable estimate on moulds just with a model count and they've got a sort of known cost.  The CAD files are worth exactly what Spartan thinks they are worth, as are the rules, because they can't really have a "market" value.  They've probably got a decent amount of capital in their shop to make everything, but chances are anyone wanting to buy the IP would already have the capability of making it.  Not to say they wouldn't want more equipment to expand, but that all depends on their current capacity vs expected increase from picking up the new IPs.
In the end it probably mostly comes down to the creditors and what they think they can get out of it.  Which could be anything from almost nothing to quite a lot.

As for community rules, I couldn't see starting from scratch as you're too likely to make the new rules so much different than current players (the only ones the IP is worth anything to) won't even see it as the same system.  I think there are probably a few "cornerstone" ideas/designs that could be changed.
I'll start a thread in the DW section for what sort of ideas everyone has for a direction a community set of rules would take.