DWars fluff is dead, long live Warcradle

[RuleBritannia]

Taken from Stuart MacKaness's comment on facebook

The new narrative may well have some of the events of the original game, but the world is different, the history is different and the factions are different. The current narrative ended with the end of Spartan. The full narrative won't be there until the book is released. No point in looking for detail that isn't there at this point. We're focusing on getting a great game written and then seeing where the narrative needs to go to make sure that it reflects the game.

[Fracas]

Link?


I am glad there will be fluff changes but I think firestorm needs it more than DW

[McKInstry]

I think the fluff structure got a bit creaky as the new factions/mercs were shoehorned into the base game. A fresh start seems like a good idea.

[Fracas]

Two DW fluff items that stand out as odd to me:
France and Prussia as allies
And China as a minor ally to japan

Given the iconography on the models, and their model range, the major powers will remain major powers
Warcradle options to grow the business will likely include raising some middle powers  to major power model range (which mandates a different fluff) as well as fleshing out the middles (to have models for all three theaters: sea, land and air)
Candidates for new majors: a South American power, a Middle East power (ottomans), and China; maybe the austrio-Hungarian/Carpathian and Spain?
The black wolf and eclipse company could also be reassigned to more conventional geo-political entities?

Also interesting to see what they do with CoA.

Stray too far from existing fluff will risk alienating the current players ( who should be grateful the game is still alive)

[RuleBritannia]

They are cutting the total factions down to eight so I have no idea....  More annoyed that a total reboot removes Franco's excellent quality fluff. 

[Nordic_Wolf]

Stray too far from existing fluff will risk alienating the current players ( who should be grateful the game is still alive)

Should I be grateful? To whom? That sounds a bit too consumerist and slaverish in my opinion. The game is alive not because someone bought it and maybe, someday, and I don't know when, will release something that may look like it in that direction. I, along with another couple of players from my club and another friendly club, continue to support the game as it is, not for the fluff, but for the models and mechanics. The fluff I invent for myself, as an example, is my own completely, through knowledge of history, with knowledge of the classical literature on the topic (think Jules Verne - Robur series, and Herbert Wells) with a little droplet of own imagination added - in short, I do not care what kind of fluff is created by whom, I just like the mechanics as it were, so I don't simply consume ready-made pies and pastries, I like to cook for myself the story as well. If warcradle changes a whole lot of it's mechanics (really I don't expect changes for the best when they happen, from experiences, so please excuse my pessimist tone here), then I would not worry - we still have the old game rules (and majorly thanks to Ruckdog for doing up a G-drive full of these documents) and the new things can be completely ignored. In addition, I am not sure these guys will make the rules available as free downloads... but this matter we shall see, they may, and I may be wrong....

In any case though, these rules have also seen adaptations to historical scenes, like pre-dreadnought era naval battles, and actually being my little "pet-project" of a sort, so I am in it too.

So to cut it short, the game is a relic, like most other things that have died in the past, but it life continues on as people who liked the game will support it in various means, disregarding what the wholesale system has got to say on such matters....

[RuleBritannia]

The two big problems I have had with warcradle is a smothering social media presence and a sense they don't get nor want to get what DWars was.  It seems rather late for both things to be resolved, but the fluff issue is one that this throws into sharp relief.

What DWars did that I really loved was go there is this weirdness of the vaults, but instead of people becoming superhuman, corrupted or externally changed by new technology, making it basically magical, Spartan merely used Sturginium to create an exaggerated Victorian nationalism.  It is very human, and from Franco's writing has a sense of mass production, grinding warfare organised by professionals in defence of their nation or for the purpose of making a living.  The desire to create a simpler, less grey, 'darker' narrative might be a commercially sound one, I'm no market analyst, but implies a lack of respect for the source material.  The very desire to reboot right from the start and the desire to include aliens feels like Warcradle wanted a generic steampunk game to add to their stable and so gutted DWars.  The stress on the very fact we should be grateful for this rather than annoyed that unlike other recent takeover of similar companies there is no just a lack of respect but a mocking of fans for enjoying a game they invested time and effort into is grating especially with the social media smothering. 

Why buy the name and the materials to create an entirely new world? 

[Ruckdog]

Why buy the name and the materials to create an entirely new world? 

Because they aren’t?

From what I’ve read of the FB posts, they aren’t creating a “whole new world.” Instead, my understanding is that they are making tweaks and changes to what’s there, to both make things a bit more coherent and to fit their own vision of the setting. And from what I see on the FB threads, WC has never seriously put forward that DW is going to be all about aliens now (lots of jokes about that though!). In fact, I distinctly remember them stating that it’s still going to be human focused, with the same  Victorian Nationalism run amok vibe the game has always had. From the talks I’ve had with Stuart, he’s expressed an interest is trying to keep the themes and feel of the setting intact, and I for one am willing to give WC the benefit of the doubt until we see more concrete info.

[Stuart-Warcradle]

Hello RuleBritannia, you know, you sound an awful lot like Danny Buck... My Warcradle issue Palantír is being serviced at the moment so I can't be sure of course... Maybe you're just members of the same secret society in Antarctica 

It's odd isn't it? What one person sees as active community engagement, another sees as a smothering social media presence. I guess it depends on who you are and what you are trying to say or stir up. Certainly, it isn't our intention to smother you. Mind you, it sounds like we keep bumping into each other. Maybe we just both know all the best places to chat! 

We are hard at work refining whole chunks of the Dystopian Wars background which will be retained in the reboot. After all, its fantastic stuff. There are a couple of parts that need to be reworked to fit into the larger setting we are developing but we'll be making a video outlining those broad changes this week (and following it up in later weeks with all sorts of background articles and pictures of some of the amazing new miniatures being developed).

There won't be magic in Dystopian Wars. Or vampires and goblins. Everything should have a scientific (or pseudo-scientific) explanation. Of course, some might see the extraterestrial or super-science of the Dystopian Age as magical and some might see the inexplicable as supernatural, but that doesn't mean that they are. Humanity is at the heart of Dystopian Wars (though don't be concerned if we talk in romanticised terms about destiny and good and evil, those are human perceptions of things not actual definitive concepts). The Dystopian world is one of shades of grey, not absolutes.

We know that for some, any change is unwelcome (or unnecessary). All I would say to those people is give the new setting a chance. We're sure there's lots to like about it (after all it will contain lots of the existing material!) and the new ideas and expanded/reworked factions will give players lots to get excited about (without having to start all new fleets for yet another small faction). 

We really aren't looking to create something new for the sake of it (what would be the point?). But it was never the plan to just pick up where Spartan left off and trot out the same old stuff to the same loyal fan base. Though that would be the easiest thing to do, it is also the most limited from appealing to new players and giving the existing fans as exciting a world as they deserve to play in.  This is about the long-term health of the game. So either patiently reserve judgement and get involved in the Beta test before deciding, or assume that whatever we come up with will be terrible and stick with 1.0/1.1/2.0/2.1/2.5. Either way, the choice is yours!

[Fracas]

Stuart,


What are the plans for firestorm whose fluff needs more work than DW?

[Stuart-Warcradle]

Firestorm’s background needs a complete overhaul, which is a much larger and complex job. We’re looking at lots of options.

Dystopian just needed some pruning and reworking in a few places.

[Bloed]

Stuart,
since it's a bit tricky to get info out of Britannia, I figured I'd ask you as well:
Where exactly is that facebook-whatever where you've commented on things? The official Warcradle page seems to be at least 99% about WWX, and while the forums are up and running again they also seem pretty dead. So while RB up there might be complaining about a smothering social media presence, I don't really see any at all. At least when it comes to DW and friends.

[Ruckdog]

Stuart,
since it's a bit tricky to get info out of Britannia, I figured I'd ask you as well:
Where exactly is that facebook-whatever where you've commented on things? The official Warcradle page seems to be at least 99% about WWX, and while the forums are up and running again they also seem pretty dead. So while RB up there might be complaining about a smothering social media presence, I don't really see any at all. At least when it comes to DW and friends.

Bloed, most of what we are talking about here regarding DW has been posted in the “Dystopian Wars and Legions” Facebook group. You will need a FB account, and then you will need to ask to join the group through FB and be approved by the group admin ( which is pretty much a given, Ive never known them to turn anyone away) as the group is not public.

Edit: Oh, and the reason the official DW/ FSA/US forums seem dead is because Warcradle has not enabled posting on them; they are effectively in a “read only” state ATM.

[Bloed]

Bloed, most of what we are talking about here regarding DW has been posted in the “Dystopian Wars and Legions” Facebook group. You will need a FB account, and then you will need to ask to join the group through FB and be approved by the group admin ( which is pretty much a given, Ive never known them to turn anyone away) as the group is not public.

Edit: Oh, and the reason the official DW/ FSA/US forums seem dead is because Warcradle has not enabled posting on them; they are effectively in a “read only” state ATM.

Ah, that explains it. Thanks for pointing both those things out!

[Fracas]

Firestorm’s background needs a complete overhaul, which is a much larger and complex job. We’re looking at lots of options.

Hurray!