DWars fluff is dead, long live Warcradle

[Landlubber]

I'm not *too* concerned about a fluff/backstory overhaul...I was never really wedded to it anyway. I generally like the setting, but I never got too wrapped up in all the details of why things were happening.

My only concern right now is the whole trimming down to 8 factions thing, which I've heard in rumor only. (Stuart, can you confirm this?) DW has a lot of really cool-looking factions, and I'd hate to see some of them written out of the game. But I'll reserve judgment until we know for sure what's going on.

[Ruckdog]

The big announcement was made today!

https://youtu.be/2iVueg6W674

To summarize:

-The setting for DW is now branded as the Dystopian Age
- Wild West Exodous is now part of the Dystopian Age
-Dystopian Wars will be an air/naval game, and remain at 1:1200 scale
-Armored Clash is going to be the Land/air game in the Dystopian Age, and will be in 10mm scale
-Warcradle is setting things up to allow gamers to use their old DW land models as proxies for the new Armored Clash
-Bunkers, shore fortifications, and landing craft will be included in DW, to allow for beach landing scenarios.
-The prospect of doing linked campaigns with DW, AC, and a 35mm figure game was mentioned.

[Landlubber]

Well...for my model collections, it looks like a version of my beloved FSA made it through, and a version of the Chinese Federation. Wonder what's going to become of the RoF and Australian models.

I think I like the new FSA (or I guess now the UFAS) model they showed. The gun turrets are pretty sweet (really like the blast shields), and I'm glad they seem to be keeping the paddlewheel theme. The new Chinese (or Immortal Celestial)...not sure. Minus a few of the details on the hull, the battleship they previewed looks like 85% the CF battleship and 15% the EotBS heavy battleship. Will need to see more of that line before I can form an opinion.

[Bloed]

So, I've read a lot of the Facebook comments over the past day, and since you fine people were what pointed me at them, I'm going to relay some of that back to you!

First of all, it will be about A YEAR until we see the new DW officially hit the shelves. This estimate is from the guy sitting on the lefthand side of the video, and should be relatively accurate. Alphas and Betas before that, if I understood right and if they decide to have them public.

Well...for my model collections, it looks like a version of my beloved FSA made it through, and a version of the Chinese Federation. Wonder what's going to become of the RoF and Australian models.

I think I like the new FSA (or I guess now the UFAS) model they showed. The gun turrets are pretty sweet (really like the blast shields), and I'm glad they seem to be keeping the paddlewheel theme. The new Chinese (or Immortal Celestial)...not sure. Minus a few of the details on the hull, the battleship they previewed looks like 85% the CF battleship and 15% the EotBS heavy battleship. Will need to see more of that line before I can form an opinion.

Union of Federated American States is a weird name. Also, the South used slaves again. I'm not sure how I feel about that. The alternate history take was interesting, but just going "slavery in America never happened" was... odd? Since Stonewall is also still kicking about with his gang of plucky guerillas, we might also see some ironclad mercenary ships of the defunct Confederate Navy (though this is purely projection on my part).

EotBS and CF are now the "Celestial Empire", which also includes Korea and up to 4 more Asian nations. You can still field exclusively CF or EotBS navies, but in fluff they'll be close allies.

Republique of France is now allied with the Spanish Sovereignty and the League of Italian States in the Latin Alliance, ruled by Napoleon (The third, I think. Or maybe steampunk Zombie Napoleon I. Who knows?)

The Russian Federation and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth are also one faction, though there is no word about what their "big" name is gonna be, and if any other factions are involved.

Covenant of Antarctica is now "Covenant of the Enlightened", Antarctic Division. There are different chapters of them across the world, the Antarctic one still headed by Sturgeon, the American branch lead by Dr. Carpathian (think Dr. Frankenstein with even less moral scruples and varied interest in more 'evil' science), the Russian one headed by the "Troika" (hey, I know about as much of them as you do), the Persian one headed by a Princess (which also kinda hints at Persia as a faction!), and maybe more unnamed charters.

[Ruckdog]

Here is my thoughts on the Warcradle announcement:

http://www.manbattlestations.com/blog/2017/12/03/the-dystopian-age/

So, I've read a lot of the Facebook comments over the past day, and since you fine people were what pointed me at them, I'm going to relay some of that back to you!

First of all, it will be about A YEAR until we see the new DW officially hit the shelves. This estimate is from the guy sitting on the lefthand side of the video, and should be relatively accurate. Alphas and Betas before that, if I understood right and if they decide to have them public.

Well...for my model collections, it looks like a version of my beloved FSA made it through, and a version of the Chinese Federation. Wonder what's going to become of the RoF and Australian models.

I think I like the new FSA (or I guess now the UFAS) model they showed. The gun turrets are pretty sweet (really like the blast shields), and I'm glad they seem to be keeping the paddlewheel theme. The new Chinese (or Immortal Celestial)...not sure. Minus a few of the details on the hull, the battleship they previewed looks like 85% the CF battleship and 15% the EotBS heavy battleship. Will need to see more of that line before I can form an opinion.

Union of Federated American States is a weird name. Also, the South used slaves again. I'm not sure how I feel about that. The alternate history take was interesting, but just going "slavery in America never happened" was... odd? Since Stonewall is also still kicking about with his gang of plucky guerillas, we might also see some ironclad mercenary ships of the defunct Confederate Navy (though this is purely projection on my part).

EotBS and CF are now the "Celestial Empire", which also includes Korea and up to 4 more Asian nations. You can still field exclusively CF or EotBS navies, but in fluff they'll be close allies.

Republique of France is now allied with the Spanish Sovereignty and the League of Italian States in the Latin Alliance, ruled by Napoleon (The third, I think. Or maybe steampunk Zombie Napoleon I. Who knows?)

The Russian Federation and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth are also one faction, though there is no word about what their "big" name is gonna be, and if any other factions are involved.

Covenant of Antarctica is now "Covenant of the Enlightened", Antarctic Division. There are different chapters of them across the world, the Antarctic one still headed by Sturgeon, the American branch lead by Dr. Carpathian (think Dr. Frankenstein with even less moral scruples and varied interest in more 'evil' science), the Russian one headed by the "Troika" (hey, I know about as much of them as you do), the Persian one headed by a Princess (which also kinda hints at Persia as a faction!), and maybe more unnamed charters.

Great summary! I have been collecting similar notes for another blog post on this as well.

[Ruckdog]

Just finished another blog post! This time I'm taking a closer look at all of the neat model previews that were shown last Friday.

http://www.manbattlestations.com/blog/2017/12/03/dystopian-age-model-previews/

[Fracas]

So, I've read a lot of the Facebook comments over the past day, and since you fine people were what pointed me at them, I'm going to relay some of that back to you!

First of all, it will be about A YEAR until we see the new DW officially hit the shelves. This estimate is from the guy sitting on the lefthand side of the video, and should be relatively accurate. Alphas and Betas before that, if I understood right and if they decide to have them public.

Well...for my model collections, it looks like a version of my beloved FSA made it through, and a version of the Chinese Federation. Wonder what's going to become of the RoF and Australian models.

I think I like the new FSA (or I guess now the UFAS) model they showed. The gun turrets are pretty sweet (really like the blast shields), and I'm glad they seem to be keeping the paddlewheel theme. The new Chinese (or Immortal Celestial)...not sure. Minus a few of the details on the hull, the battleship they previewed looks like 85% the CF battleship and 15% the EotBS heavy battleship. Will need to see more of that line before I can form an opinion.

Union of Federated American States is a weird name. Also, the South used slaves again. I'm not sure how I feel about that. The alternate history take was interesting, but just going "slavery in America never happened" was... odd? Since Stonewall is also still kicking about with his gang of plucky guerillas, we might also see some ironclad mercenary ships of the defunct Confederate Navy (though this is purely projection on my part).

EotBS and CF are now the "Celestial Empire", which also includes Korea and up to 4 more Asian nations. You can still field exclusively CF or EotBS navies, but in fluff they'll be close allies.

Republique of France is now allied with the Spanish Sovereignty and the League of Italian States in the Latin Alliance, ruled by Napoleon (The third, I think. Or maybe steampunk Zombie Napoleon I. Who knows?)

The Russian Federation and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth are also one faction, though there is no word about what their "big" name is gonna be, and if any other factions are involved.

Covenant of Antarctica is now "Covenant of the Enlightened", Antarctic Division. There are different chapters of them across the world, the Antarctic one still headed by Sturgeon, the American branch lead by Dr. Carpathian (think Dr. Frankenstein with even less moral scruples and varied interest in more 'evil' science), the Russian one headed by the "Troika" (hey, I know about as much of them as you do), the Persian one headed by a Princess (which also kinda hints at Persia as a faction!), and maybe more unnamed charters.

Much seems unnecessary

[Ryjak]

Rebranding the game makes it their own thing while distancing them from what was there with SG.  While it’s generally superficial, it can be a good marketing technique.

Warcradle is clearly not trying to please everyone that played DW, but that’s a good thing, because it’s impossible.  They’re instead taking the stuff they liked, trashing what they didn’t, and making something new in the process.  New models, new background, and most importantly, a vision for how to develop the game long term.

What they didn’t show is also telling; nothing about what really matters: gameplay.  However, having tried developing new mechanics and tweaking existing ones, this process is much harder than you might think... particularly if you want to make something new and good.  So wait and see what happens.

[Bloed]

What they didn’t show is also telling; nothing about what really matters: gameplay.  However, having tried developing new mechanics and tweaking existing ones, this process is much harder than you might think... particularly if you want to make something new and good.  So wait and see what happens.

The guy on the left in the video (forgot his name) did mention that it's gonna be a year until the new DW will be released. So saying anything about the rules now would be unwise, as a lot is still going to change. I suspect that's also why there's no word on Imperial Bond and the Grand Alliance yet. If I'm perfectly honest, I suspect the two will get canned. From their devblogs on Wild West Exodus, on of the big design principles of the Warcradle guys seems to be freedom of player choice, and plenty of in-faction variety. Not sure how arbitrary super-alliances would mesh with that.

[RuleBritannia]

As a fluff guy this was what got me very angry, the sacrificing of the somewhat more subtle and careful Dystopian Wars original flavour alt history for a much less careful and in some cases unnecessarily grim dark fluff.  The two settings aren't overly compatible and the seams are pretty obvious in the hack and slash.  This comes from a definite rooting in rule of cool over pseudo history.  Maybe it will sell better?  But the problem with this comes from making obvious some of the darker part of Victorian colonialism and culture that DWars classic made efforts to reduce, and could be problematic going into the future.  For example making all the Asian factions connected together as the Celestials homogenises some pretty varied cultures, and evokes some unfortunate stereotypes, such as the name Celestial itself that could be misread.  Similarly bringing back slavery into the setting, and its virtual usage in the Enlightened's cyborg construction and linking that to the 'progress' faction of the covenant runs the risk of some dodgy atmosphere with the tension inside the United States currently.  Treating Africa as a warzone too discounts both existing contemporary cultures and comes off as flippant even in the era that saw the scramble for Africa.  I am probably overthinking this fluff stuff, but its that and the industry standard but rather unpleasant habit of Warcradle to produce very cheesecakey female models that runs the risk of devaluing the brand through this absorption. 

As to the models, which Mann's blog had some very good renders, the 'Crown' ship looked great bar the silly turrets, and what looked like a 19th century apartment block behind the top.  The 'Celestials' being dominated by the more Chinese looking vessels urks me since I grew fond of the neo-futurism of the Japanese train.  I realised the American vessel had a cow catcher frontage that seems rather silly. 

[Fracas]

Lumping together factions eliminates conflicts between factions and this is bad.

For instance there should be a three way fight for east Asia: japan vs China vs Russia vs japan


Also not sure that the lack of success with armor clash was due to lack of in scale infantry; if it was moving to 10mm would make sense.


I do like the rebranding as Dystopian Age

[Covertwalrus]

Two DW fluff items that stand out as odd to me:
France and Prussia as allies
And China as a minor ally to japan

 And how about Greece as part of the Ottoman/Persian/Egyptian complex? Sounds like there's a lot of Xerxes fanboys at Warcradle

[Covertwalrus]

Stuart,
since it's a bit tricky to get info out of Britannia, I figured I'd ask you as well:
Where exactly is that facebook-whatever where you've commented on things?

 If you are on Facebook, trying joining https://www.facebook.com/groups/dystopian.wars.and.legions/ All the Warcradle and Wayland Games staff are now moderators, and frequently make comments. Heck, Stuart even makes comments on my personal page and other page posts at times . . .

[RuleBritannia]

I find it rather suffocating for conversation, but different strokes for different folks.

[Rich1231]

I find it rather suffocating for conversation, but different strokes for different folks.

Suffocating? You mean you get banned for personal abuse?