WC Production of Old DW Models

[Fracas]

What surprised me was the problem with the moulds.  For all Spartan problems quality and fresh products and responsive services were not among them.

[Ruckdog]

Here is my thoughts as to what is happened based on things Neil Fawcett has said over the years in interviews and what Rich and Stuart have stated here and elsewhere.

The rubber molds that Spartan used would wear out and break down over time, due in large part to the heat the resin they used gives off when curing. If allowed to go too far, the result would be bits of mold rubber coming off the mold and getting stuck to the model. I’ve actually gotten models from them with that problem (mostly older runs from the 2012 timeframe). As a result, Spartan was constantly having to make new molds as the old ones degenerated too far. All of that was stated point-blank by Neil.

Here is where my inferences start: From what Stuart and Rich are saying, it sounds like the old worn-out molds were kept around in storage by Spartan rather than being destroyed (for lord only knows what reasons). Not a problem when your mold room is organized and being run by folks that have been there since the start to know where everything is. Unfortunately, when Spartan went under it sounds like both the old worn-out molds and the functional molds were all boxed up together by whoever cleared out the facilities Spartan was renting (I get the sense that an outside moving company was brought in to throw everything in boxes and get it off the premises, rather than Spartan staff doing a controlled shutdown of operations). As a result, WC  now has apparently thousands of molds with no idea which molds are good and which are unusable.

In a way, I imagine it’s somewhat analogous to having all the books in a local library dumped on its front lawn, firing the old librarians, and hiring new ones to put them all back. You no longer have Myrtle around who has worked their 20 years and knows that the biography of Teddy Roosevelt with the blue cover goes in row 8 on the 3rd shelf.

Rich, Stuart, how close to the mark am I?

[Covertwalrus]

 I agree with mainly has been said so far. But I would raise some points.

 1) Rich made a comment the other day that many of the older molds had a large number of problems and they had lots of customer complaints about them on file, or words to that effect. As I said before, that reminded me of the RAFM/DP9 debacle, which some industry insiders said later was partly engineered by DP9 to pull out of their contract with RAFM without penalty and use the money for their in-house casting setting up costs. Now, I'm NOT accusing WC of any such thing, it just sounds similar, and I never had a problem with Spartan castings myself.

 2) Related to 1), and having spoken to a couple of people in the business of resin casting, the rate of burnout of molds for this process is extreme especially when you have fine detail such as the DW range is famed for. So sure, I accept that many of the high-volume and older models will have severely compromised molds by now( I tell you three times ), and that test casts would have to be done, master printed out from the 3D files for new ones if they turn out to be duds. BUT and it is a big "but" . . . What about the low-volume items, ones that didn't get a lot of use, like, say,the Kickstarter items? Would they not tend to be more likely to be closer to ready to use condition, perhaps?

 3) And leading from 2) while again I concede that the organization of those molds and files when WC took them over was chaotic and probably will take a while to completely sort out ( I tell you three times ), is it so impossible to test a few molds that are sorted and cast them up? I'm not impatient myself, but the point is, the longer this drags on, the fewer people are going to wait around for the rebirth of the game, and the more there will develop a truly hostile pool of individuals who willmake it their business to deter both stick-to-it players like myself and potential new players from playing  the game. Heck, I know of one already who was banned from two FB pages ( Not I add, pages where WC personnel are moderators either ) for just such tactics.
 Again note that I still promote the game - Geeze, I've been spending the last tow days helping a new Covenant of Antarctica player locate miniatures and design his fleet, even answering some tactical queries! - and while I might be cheesed off at some of WC's attitudes, I'm not going to abandon it nor tell anyone else to.
 
 There. I feel better.

[Rich1231]

 I agree with mainly has been said so far. But I would raise some points.

 1) Rich made a comment the other day that many of the older molds had a large number of problems and they had lots of customer complaints about them on file, or words to that effect. As I said before, that reminded me of the RAFM/DP9 debacle, which some industry insiders said later was partly engineered by DP9 to pull out of their contract with RAFM without penalty and use the money for their in-house casting setting up costs. Now, I'm NOT accusing WC of any such thing, it just sounds similar, and I never had a problem with Spartan castings myself.

 2) Related to 1), and having spoken to a couple of people in the business of resin casting, the rate of burnout of molds for this process is extreme especially when you have fine detail such as the DW range is famed for. So sure, I accept that many of the high-volume and older models will have severely compromised molds by now( I tell you three times ), and that test casts would have to be done, master printed out from the 3D files for new ones if they turn out to be duds. BUT and it is a big "but" . . . What about the low-volume items, ones that didn't get a lot of use, like, say,the Kickstarter items? Would they not tend to be more likely to be closer to ready to use condition, perhaps?

 3) And leading from 2) while again I concede that the organization of those molds and files when WC took them over was chaotic and probably will take a while to completely sort out ( I tell you three times ), is it so impossible to test a few molds that are sorted and cast them up? I'm not impatient myself, but the point is, the longer this drags on, the fewer people are going to wait around for the rebirth of the game, and the more there will develop a truly hostile pool of individuals who willmake it their business to deter both stick-to-it players like myself and potential new players from playing  the game. Heck, I know of one already who was banned from two FB pages ( Not I add, pages where WC personnel are moderators either ) for just such tactics.
 Again note that I still promote the game - Geeze, I've been spending the last tow days helping a new Covenant of Antarctica player locate miniatures and design his fleet, even answering some tactical queries! - and while I might be cheesed off at some of WC's attitudes, I'm not going to abandon it nor tell anyone else to.
 
 There. I feel better.

In response to 1)  I didn't quite say that.   There are complaints by people in the community of mold rubber being found on casts etc. As Spartan ran out of money I am assuming they kept old molds in use long after they should have retired them.  Then the molds.... there is no labeling on most and they were literally just chucked into large metal containers that then needed to be placed in boxes on pallets. Spartan kept old dead molds as there are so many ( we don't have any idea why). There is no way to visually identify which is which, except for a tiny number. And there is no systemic way as the manufacturing software they used which we assume had mold information was locked months ago, but that mold information would have been based on locations in a warehouse... wonder if you could see the issue with that?

So first we have to identify each mold, find its partner if it is a pair, inspect it, test cast it.
Then if it fails, try and find a master, if there is one.  in the huge piles of stuff thrown in boxes together.
If there is no master then we have to find the source files and reprint it.
Remastering, making molds, 3d printing, casting etc  All cost time and money even if they are only for test purposes.

All of those ignore the need for packaging, ignore the need for manufacturing data (such as what parts went into each product)
Ignore the financial realities of bringing something back into production, which might cost anywhere between £300 to £x000 per product, that might sell 50 copies as demand might be too low. Individual releases just to fill a few collections gaps, whilst great for the few individuals waiting for them, do nothing to provide a platform to build a game and sales base upon. A cohesive range, released in a planned way, with a game system, retailers supporting it, is the only way this is going to be a success.

Re your remark about DP9/RAFM, I don't understand why you would make such a remark... What contract are we trying to avoid? What situation? There isn't any logic in it, you imply somehow we have taken the casting away from Spartan to fund our investment in manufacturing. Spartan failed completely. There isn't any contract to move. There are a few other remarks from others along the lines of that we are for some reason holding back releases or not getting things into production. That's is true in the sense that if we hadn't bothered with any of the other stuff I am sure we could be releasing new product by now. But we do have a lot to do, and we also have some significant construction taking place from later this week to expand manufacturing. They all take time.

There is still a lot to do, I am sorry that you are frustrated about the length of time it is taking to release products but we explained our approach early on, we have not deviated from it and we have not made promises to release the product by any deadline that we have missed. We were determined not to rush. We are not financially driven to get releases out quickly at the risk of impacting quality.

[Covertwalrus]

 Well, Rich, that reply makes a lot of sense.

 Firstly, as for "bits of rubber form the mold in the model" that is a common problem in many finely detailed models from a variety of manufacturers, certainly from the several resin companies I deal with ( I'd name them, however one is very small outfit and despite it's high reputation I'd like not to downcast them; the second is again well-known and I know the endeavor to clean off models prior to sale and the problem is so minor with them it's barely frequent; An d the last being American probably isn't one you're aware of, Rich, and in any case do such high volume  work inclduign professional prototype work, something slipping through their notice is understandable ).
I've never really considered it a problem for me as it can be easily solved customer-wise with a pin, but I do appreciate that it must leave molds in poor shape after a while. I'm surprised to learn that such molds where never retired, and you have to wonder at why that was.

 I've always appreciated this restart was going to take time, I tell you three times. However, the problem as I see it is that it will take too long for some people and ill-will can build up. I will credit you with one excellent move to curtail that, Rich: the Ice Maiden redesign was not only generous in price, it was a fine model and by all accounts well received and appreciated even by those like myself who have no use for it since we don't play that faction. ( I would have re-sculpted and brought out something of greater overall utility for all factions of player myself, like the Sturginium Extraction Facility, but then what do I know? Besides, that would have been complicated, as I've seen the parts breakdown photo from several people with one . . .  )

 no, i still might have some critiques and complaints, but that is an answer that sits well. Thank you for that