Author Topic: An Update on Dystopian Age with Warcradle (Beasts of War)  (Read 13617 times)

Covertwalrus

  • Lieutenant Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 413
  • Number of Times Thanked: 90
    • View Profile
Re: An Update on Dystopian Age with Warcradle (Beasts of War)
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2018, 02:27:09 am »

 
Quote
It doesn't mean that Stuart was necessarily lying, though; it could also be that at the time, that was the direction they were planning on heading but have since changed their minds on where they want to take the narrative setting for the DA.

 Ummmm . . . I never suggested that Stuart was lying, I simply said the statement he made was later proven incorrect or to be false. The implication was indeed that Stuart's information was faulty for one reason or another ( Probably due to the independently observed fact that Weyland Games and by their ownership Warcradle appears to enjoy poor interdepartmental communications and to a similar extent similar customer communications ).
 Not the first time my brand of English was at variance with the American usage.  ( Remind me to tell you guys about how Old Man Webster's definition of "Demagogue" got me in trouble :D )

Quote
I'm not saying that Markov and Carpathian are equally reprehensible, but they are different kinds of dark mirror to Sturgeon.


 Yes, now I see what you meant - that's similar to what I was talking about just a touch more detailed and with a "spectrum" approach. Interestign how serving "the greater good" has been interpreted by so many people these days to be seen as some kind of sinister totalitarian agenda in itself, when at the time it first arose in real history, it was considered "Wishy-washy bleeding heart liberalism" :D ( I blame GW . . . I do that a lot :D )
 It still leaves us with the League of Crimson as, to quote a rather good Metal Hurlant story line, "A group of moneyed individuals with nothing better to do than f*** with the lawful day-to-day running of the universe" :)

 And Asuo has a good point as well :)

 

RuleBritannia

  • Lieutenant Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 253
  • Number of Times Thanked: 32
    • View Profile
Re: An Update on Dystopian Age with Warcradle (Beasts of War)
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2018, 03:44:21 am »
It's something I really enjoyed from the Game of Thrones books was the way a character can be critiqued and explored through various mirrors, and something any decent game should approach.  All the factions need a capacity to go to war, yet also different reasons for doing so if possible. 

Sebenko

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • Number of Times Thanked: 20
    • View Profile
Re: An Update on Dystopian Age with Warcradle (Beasts of War)
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2018, 04:47:40 am »
It suddenly hit me where I've seen this before- Supreme Commander to Supreme Commander 2.
"Hurf durf, it had giant robots in it, that means it's a balls out stupid setting. GIANT DINOSAURS NOW!", and SupCom was never seen again.

Rich1231

  • Guest
Re: An Update on Dystopian Age with Warcradle (Beasts of War)
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2018, 05:27:54 am »

 
Quote
It doesn't mean that Stuart was necessarily lying, though; it could also be that at the time, that was the direction they were planning on heading but have since changed their minds on where they want to take the narrative setting for the DA.

 Ummmm . . . I never suggested that Stuart was lying, I simply said the statement he made was later proven incorrect or to be false. The implication was indeed that Stuart's information was faulty for one reason or another ( Probably due to the independently observed fact that Weyland Games and by their ownership Warcradle appears to enjoy poor interdepartmental communications and to a similar extent similar customer communications ).
 Not the first time my brand of English was at variance with the American usage.  ( Remind me to tell you guys about how Old Man Webster's definition of "Demagogue" got me in trouble :D )

Quote
I'm not saying that Markov and Carpathian are equally reprehensible, but they are different kinds of dark mirror to Sturgeon.


 Yes, now I see what you meant - that's similar to what I was talking about just a touch more detailed and with a "spectrum" approach. Interestign how serving "the greater good" has been interpreted by so many people these days to be seen as some kind of sinister totalitarian agenda in itself, when at the time it first arose in real history, it was considered "Wishy-washy bleeding heart liberalism" :D ( I blame GW . . . I do that a lot :D )
 It still leaves us with the League of Crimson as, to quote a rather good Metal Hurlant story line, "A group of moneyed individuals with nothing better to do than f*** with the lawful day-to-day running of the universe" :)

 And Asuo has a good point as well :)

Not lying nor incorrect. If we have released information it will be based upon our direction and understanding of our intent at that time. We have changed our minds about lots of things and then updated our position. That doesn't mean there is some nefarious miscommunication or plans at work. It is still early days and it is very likely we will change our minds again and again as we finesse the games and world's they exist in.

RuleBritannia

  • Lieutenant Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 253
  • Number of Times Thanked: 32
    • View Profile
Re: An Update on Dystopian Age with Warcradle (Beasts of War)
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2018, 07:14:21 am »
It suddenly hit me where I've seen this before- Supreme Commander to Supreme Commander 2.
"Hurf durf, it had giant robots in it, that means it's a balls out stupid setting. GIANT DINOSAURS NOW!", and SupCom was never seen again.

I had some similar concerns when Rich said both WWX and DWars were basically the same game and setting.  Thankfully we can see from more fluff drafts and the distance between WWX and DWars that WC towers gets that these aren't the same games, and trying to modify fluff and keep some lines distant.  The Chinese are no longer run by immortal Chi vampires, that sort of thing.

Sebenko

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • Number of Times Thanked: 20
    • View Profile
Re: An Update on Dystopian Age with Warcradle (Beasts of War)
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2018, 09:30:23 am »
I still have those concerns regarding model direction. And I think we should be concerned that Warcradle ever thought DWars was the same as WWX. Airships and Brass, and the year 18XX do not make two settings equivalent.

Asuo

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • Number of Times Thanked: 3
    • View Profile
Re: An Update on Dystopian Age with Warcradle (Beasts of War)
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2018, 12:57:26 pm »
It suddenly hit me where I've seen this before- Supreme Commander to Supreme Commander 2.
"Hurf durf, it had giant robots in it, that means it's a balls out stupid setting. GIANT DINOSAURS NOW!", and SupCom was never seen again.

I had some similar concerns when Rich said both WWX and DWars were basically the same game and setting.  Thankfully we can see from more fluff drafts and the distance between WWX and DWars that WC towers gets that these aren't the same games, and trying to modify fluff and keep some lines distant.  The Chinese are no longer run by immortal Chi vampires, that sort of thing.

Maybe syphoning off Chi was just a way to scare off the outsiders!

RuleBritannia

  • Lieutenant Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 253
  • Number of Times Thanked: 32
    • View Profile
Re: An Update on Dystopian Age with Warcradle (Beasts of War)
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2018, 02:26:32 pm »
It suddenly hit me where I've seen this before- Supreme Commander to Supreme Commander 2.
"Hurf durf, it had giant robots in it, that means it's a balls out stupid setting. GIANT DINOSAURS NOW!", and SupCom was never seen again.

I had some similar concerns when Rich said both WWX and DWars were basically the same game and setting.  Thankfully we can see from more fluff drafts and the distance between WWX and DWars that WC towers gets that these aren't the same games, and trying to modify fluff and keep some lines distant.  The Chinese are no longer run by immortal Chi vampires, that sort of thing.

Maybe syphoning off Chi was just a way to scare off the outsiders!

Watch out for the Emperor!  His Feng Shui is absolutely deadly! 

Asuo

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • Number of Times Thanked: 3
    • View Profile
Re: An Update on Dystopian Age with Warcradle (Beasts of War)
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2018, 04:20:10 pm »
What if the Celestial Empire spread the Rumor in order to scare away outsiders and try and keep its own populace in line, along come the Union and the promise of wealth and safety, so off go the Empire workers.

 The Empire is in the situation that its populace is now going to help build an opposing Nation, some what annoyed its ruse has backfired the Empire is seeking to get its people back.

Enter the geo political schanigans, work at destabilising the Union and make it no longer an intrest for its people.

At the end of the day what Narrative an individual uses is down to them, Warcradle are providing a world, models and rules what you do with them is up to you.

RuleBritannia

  • Lieutenant Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 253
  • Number of Times Thanked: 32
    • View Profile
Re: An Update on Dystopian Age with Warcradle (Beasts of War)
« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2018, 04:24:04 pm »
I think it was a sensible thing to drop since it was awfully close to some yellow peril and Fu Manchu tropes, so treating China as just another grown up industrialised state makes so much more sense.

Covertwalrus

  • Lieutenant Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 413
  • Number of Times Thanked: 90
    • View Profile
Re: An Update on Dystopian Age with Warcradle (Beasts of War)
« Reply #40 on: May 03, 2018, 08:27:27 pm »
It suddenly hit me where I've seen this before- Supreme Commander to Supreme Commander 2.
"Hurf durf, it had giant robots in it, that means it's a balls out stupid setting. GIANT DINOSAURS NOW!", and SupCom was never seen again.

 Hey now, I liked Supreme Commander!
 
 The biotech race with the dinosaurs? Agreed, not so much . . . More the style and lack of a powerful enough PC to run it though.

Covertwalrus

  • Lieutenant Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 413
  • Number of Times Thanked: 90
    • View Profile
Re: An Update on Dystopian Age with Warcradle (Beasts of War)
« Reply #41 on: May 03, 2018, 08:47:26 pm »
Quote
That doesn't mean there is some nefarious miscommunication or plans at work.

Hello, Richard. thank you for your comment.

 I must point out that in my message, i did not say "nefarious", nor did I say malicious, deliberate or even intentional. Nor was any such implication intended, ironically enough. That is entirely your inference here and I rather take offense at you doing so. It is entirely possible to miscommunicate due to such reasons as incompetence, poor management practices or simple forgetfulness, and that is entirely free of nefariousness or criminal intent. Hanlon's razor applies here is basically what I'm trying to say.

 The episode I was referring to ( The independent one ) appears to be a good example; Someone was not given information they should have received, which led to someone being misinformed about a change in company policy. This does not argue that the lack of information was deliberate, intentional, criminal, motivated by sinister agendas or any such. I meant to imply that sometimes it seems from the outside that when the decisions and changes are made within the company, those changes don't always seem to get to people with a need to know in a timely fashion.
 I've worked in companies where that has happened; it's rarely ever malicious, it just happens until clear channels are established. :)

 And to make myself clear, this entire comment did not mean to imply any skullduggery on anyone's part at Weyland or Warcradle, and please do not infer that I want to sit anyone there down and play a different Nolan sisters record into each of their ears until their head explodes, or anything else you might accuse me of :)

 

Covertwalrus

  • Lieutenant Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 413
  • Number of Times Thanked: 90
    • View Profile
Re: An Update on Dystopian Age with Warcradle (Beasts of War)
« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2018, 08:56:20 pm »
Quote
It's something I really enjoyed from the Game of Thrones books was the way a character can be critiqued and explored through various mirrors, and something any decent game should approach.  All the factions need a capacity to go to war, yet also different reasons for doing so if possible. 

 Excellent point, rulebritannia, and it's probably a great strength as Asuo said to have a background where that can happen which, gieve them their due, Spartan did in fact have.  It's also good to hear that Richard has said here publicly that "It is still early days and it is very likely we will change our minds again and again as we finesse the games and world's they exist in. " :) So, there's a good chance that the inconceivably incompatible parts of WWX and DW will not be meshed together to the detriment of both games, after all :)

 Meanwhile, I'm busy playing 2.5 and thoroughly enjoying it :) Just wish it wasn't costing me so damn much to fill out my Russian, British and Covenant orbats, though . . . . :/


Ruckdog

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3066
  • Number of Times Thanked: 189
  • Dive! Dive!
    • View Profile
    • Man Battlestations!
Re: An Update on Dystopian Age with Warcradle (Beasts of War)
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2018, 10:49:57 pm »
Quote
That doesn't mean there is some nefarious miscommunication or plans at work.

Hello, Richard. thank you for your comment.

 I must point out that in my message, i did not say "nefarious", nor did I say malicious, deliberate or even intentional. Nor was any such implication intended, ironically enough. That is entirely your inference here and I rather take offense at you doing so. It is entirely possible to miscommunicate due to such reasons as incompetence, poor management practices or simple forgetfulness, and that is entirely free of nefariousness or criminal intent. Hanlon's razor applies here is basically what I'm trying to say.

 

Yeah, I owe you an apology; I completely misunderstood your initial post. Sorry about that!

Covertwalrus

  • Lieutenant Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 413
  • Number of Times Thanked: 90
    • View Profile
Re: An Update on Dystopian Age with Warcradle (Beasts of War)
« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2018, 03:10:01 am »
 
Quote
Yeah, I owe you an apology; I completely misunderstood your initial post. Sorry about that!

 Not a problem,  Riuckdog :) It's an inherent problem with the internet and social media, and might even explain the situation under discussion; Things change in real life and the internet moves faster but can be based on older information. And things are often open to interpretation. :)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 06:33:19 am by Covertwalrus »