An Update on Dystopian Age with Warcradle (Beasts of War)

[RuleBritannia]

Alien blood sounds a lot more exciting than sap though.....

But seriously the hivemind sounds less tyrannid and controlling than a communal link like the changelings from DS9, which somehow Carpathian managed to hide a part of himself from.  So they were connected science types as the not at all ominously named dark council.  The Dark Council would want an insider on Sturgeon's mission, so I could easily see Carpathian as said agent, and him willing to use the new tech in the vault to get free and start looking at means to cyborgise and preserve life, and use the new discoveries of the alien blood to make it more destructive than good old reliable Sturginium.

[Covertwalrus]

As for the Covenant situation, the CoA has been replaced with the "Covenant of the Enlightened", seemingly for no reason, because the different branches of the Enlightened don't apparently interact much (Known branches being the Antarcticans, a group called the Troika in Russia and the WWX Enlightened). It seems like they're part of the same faction just so that DW has the Enlightened in it. More dissapointingly, Sturgeon is now an arrogant empire builder, instead of the slightly misguided but well meaning UN/ World Police. Even wierder, apparently WWX's glowing numerically-named rock, RJ-1337 or whatever, came first and was used to find E270 in Antarctica- which totally screws the background of DW being revolutionised by the discovery of a wonder material (And cuts out the role of E270 and its technology as a metaphor/mirror for pre-WWI rapid technological advancement and the results of that when meeting old approaches to warfare, but I think I might be the only one that reads that much into DW).

 Which makes a nonsense of Stuart's one-time assertion that for example, E270 was perfectly suited to replace RJ-1337 as a McGuffin in WWX, among other "changes in interpretation between the two worlds". The more you look at it, the more DW is being pounded into the WWX universe, which seems at first glance possible, but the way it's now being done is just . . . irksome. ( I have a feeling that it's all poll and market-research driven; Making Sturgeon a villain even in this "Post-Modernist" nonjudgmental approach fits well with a world where "Scientist' as a word is rated between 'Murderer' and 'Pedophile' in people's minds, and the Flat Earthers are enjoying a renaissance. )

Also, wow, Warcradle's forums are deeeeead. No-one's even bothered to start a discussion on this.

 Given how Facebook discussions are 'adjusted' ( In similar fashion to Stalinist-era photographs ) by the Warcradle team, one has to wonder about why. Then again, the majority of new players - and there are a surprising number of those, especially on FB - wouldn't know the difference anyway.

 I suppose one has to make sacrifices to keep playing when this happens :/

[Covertwalrus]

Im not sure its blood, more like sap from a tree.

In the original fluff, Sturginium/element 270 could combine with many other material to modify their properties in odd ways ( I always though of it as an artificial element/exotic matter like 'wellstone' or vibranium to borrow a couple of other fictional examples ). Possibly the RJ-1337 might be the result of a plant or organism absorbing E270 from the soil, like a sort of Tiberium mutation, and I could live with that one

Carpathian was never under the control of the hive mind he duped it long enough to steal the seed and take it to the union, there hes working on exploiting it for his purpose, in not read all the fluff yep but i believe hed trying to gain immortality or return a loved one.

Again, I can live with that; the WWX Enlightened being a malevolent or at least worse breakaway from the CoA.

[Ruckdog]

Which makes a nonsense of Stuart's one-time assertion that for example, E270 was perfectly suited to replace RJ-1337 as a McGuffin in WWX, among other "changes in interpretation between the two worlds".

It doesn't mean that Stuart was necessarily lying, though; it could also be that at the time, that was the direction they were planning on heading but have since changed their minds on where they want to take the narrative setting for the DA.

Also, wow, Warcradle's forums are deeeeead. No-one's even bothered to start a discussion on this.

 Given how Facebook discussions are 'adjusted' ( In similar fashion to Stalinist-era photographs ) by the Warcradle team, one has to wonder about why. Then again, the majority of new players - and there are a surprising number of those, especially on FB - wouldn't know the difference anyway.

 I suppose one has to make sacrifices to keep playing when this happens :/

I think its more of a reflection about how forums in general seem less popular than FB and other social media at the moment. While MBS has been a bit busier of late than the WC forums, the traffic here still pales in comparison to what FB sees. I expect that the WC forums will pick up once the game re-launches and gamers start getting boxes stamped with "Find out more at Warcradle.com!" stamped on them .

[RuleBritannia]

I think the biggest reason the forums are kind of dead is there isn't much to discuss right now.  Fluff is up in the air, rules are being prepared but not much given away, and speculation somewhat discouraged.  The rumour mill needs more grist and preferably in more accessible formats to really get their teeth into, probably from the live chat.  Some renders, some more concrete answers to mull over.

[Asuo]

Why do you think Sturgeon is a Villan in the Narrative?

Hive mind might have been a bit strong, the hex seeds setup networks of line minded individuals to protect the seeds.

RJ and Sturginium might only be a couple of new elements, there might be others that allow for additional effects.

[RuleBritannia]

The strongest element, necessary for Camouflage generators, is surprise.  But you have to be careful, as it's easily ruined.

[Covertwalrus]

Why do you think Sturgeon is a Villan in the Narrative?

 Define which narative first

 If you mean the old Spartan background, he is more a crusading figure than a villain ( Remember, Post modern world? it's all "open to interpretation" anyway ;/ ), who despairs of the powers that be standing in the way of equal opportunity of use of the Chasm technology and E270 instead using it to bolster their own power bases and expand their dominions at the cost of the general population. His forces are taking up arms both to protect their freedom of thought and research in Antarctica and to attempt to disarm the major powers to prevent catastrophic war.

 If you mean the new Warcradle narrative, he is part of an organization dedicated to creating a new power elite based upon science, and by "science" they include arguably unethical actions such as coerced  labor through medical implants, exploitation of intelligent beings that are not indigenous to Earth, physical modification upon unconsenting volunteers and the use of cadavers as reanimated combatants and toilers; All with the aim of personal aggrandizement and at the expense of the common person who is seen as no more than raw material if not of sufficient "intelligence".

 I'd make a remark based on US politics here, that sort of humor though seems to go down badly these days. Rather, Id say its like a WW2 game that decides that Dr. Alexander Fleming and Dr. Josef Mengele are equally moral.

[RuleBritannia]

Why do you think Sturgeon is a Villan in the Narrative?

 Define which narative first

 If you mean the old Spartan background, he is more a crusading figure than a villain ( Remember, Post modern world? it's all "open to interpretation" anyway ;/ ), who despairs of the powers that be standing in the way of equal opportunity of use of the Chasm technology and E270 instead using it to bolster their own power bases and expand their dominions at the cost of the general population. His forces are taking up arms both to protect their freedom of thought and research in Antarctica and to attempt to disarm the major powers to prevent catastrophic war.

 If you mean the new Warcradle narrative, he is part of an organization dedicated to creating a new power elite based upon science, and by "science" they include arguably unethical actions such as coerced  labor through medical implants, exploitation of intelligent beings that are not indigenous to Earth, physical modification upon unconsenting volunteers and the use of cadavers as reanimated combatants and toilers; All with the aim of personal aggrandizement and at the expense of the common person who is seen as no more than raw material if not of sufficient "intelligence".

 I'd make a remark based on US politics here, that sort of humor though seems to go down badly these days. Rather, Id say its like a WW2 game that decides that Dr. Alexander Fleming and Dr. Josef Mengele are equally moral.

I hope that Sturgeon gets more of his old DWars style, as a moral scientist trying to use reason to build a utopia, is more unique to setting since you already have Markov and Carpathian as the sinister, morally and ethically compromised Scientist types.  The Warcradle involves all those exploitative elements and repeating it seems redundant.  Even if it means that Sturgeon is hopelessly naive and that Drakenburg and co are secretly running the same horrors as Carpathian. 

[Sebenko]

Perhaps we could use the upcoming Live Q&A to ask if we could get more of the heroic Sturgeon we know and love.

[Covertwalrus]

I hope that Sturgeon gets more of his old DWars style, as a moral scientist trying to use reason to build a utopia, is more unique to setting since you already have Markov and Carpathian as the sinister, morally and ethically compromised Scientist types.

 Agree 100% with the first part; I'm less certain of Markov and Carpathian as being equally reprehensible though - Carpathian and the League of Crimson are certainly sinister, While Markov? he's just a utopian scientist like Sturgeon, with a strong nationalistic bias toward Russia as being the model of the future.  ( Not necessarily racist or jingoistic nationalism either ). The new fluff makes everyone seem to have some kind of bias to the point of caricature, and while that may be the current interpretation of Steampunk and/or Victorian mores, I think it misses the major points of the era and the genre based upon it. ( I say that because I raised the point over the "Cyber-whale " miniature for the Covenant with Stuart, and he seemed surprised when I pointed out the vegetarian and animal welfare movements started in the 1840s in England, so would that be realistic; We came to a compromise that the whales my well be just wearing wireless headphones and be trained for patrol and combat rather than some zombie thing, at least for the Sturgeon faction. Stuart can be reasonable )

Perhaps we could use the upcoming Live Q&A to ask if we could get more of the heroic Sturgeon we know and love.

 I do hope that is asked though most FB commenters who might do so have either accepted it or stormed off entirely and gone to Classic 2.5 rules and storyline. If nothing else, hearing Stuart try and tell everyone what they want to hear while saying basically "This is the way we are going" at the same time will be . . . Amusing.

[Sebenko]

I'll start a thread for potential Q&A questions, might find some that would be answered.

[RuleBritannia]

Agree 100% with the first part; I'm less certain of Markov and Carpathian as being equally reprehensible though - Carpathian and the League of Crimson are certainly sinister, While Markov? he's just a utopian scientist like Sturgeon, with a strong nationalistic bias toward Russia as being the model of the future.  ( Not necessarily racist or jingoistic nationalism either ). The new fluff makes everyone seem to have some kind of bias to the point of caricature, and while that may be the current interpretation of Steampunk and/or Victorian mores, I think it misses the major points of the era and the genre based upon it. ( I say that because I raised the point over the "Cyber-whale " miniature for the Covenant with Stuart, and he seemed surprised when I pointed out the vegetarian and animal welfare movements started in the 1840s in England, so would that be realistic; We came to a compromise that the whales my well be just wearing wireless headphones and be trained for patrol and combat rather than some zombie thing, at least for the Sturgeon faction. Stuart can be reasonable )

I'm not saying that Markov and Carpathian are equally reprehensible, but they are different kinds of dark mirror to Sturgeon.  Carpathian is Sturgeon without the moral code, science for science sake, as a powerful tool that is more important than humans as individuals, hence his willingness to use robo-slaves.  Markov is nation above greater good, seeking to impose Russian rule and science as a tool of nationalism.  Both contrast with the classic Covenant as a utopian melting pot.

[Asuo]

I think the methods used but the Enlightened will differ based on the individuals, the whales can be seen in a differing fashion, some one might say let's make Robot Whales, while another says nah that's too costly still in going to train real whales then a third person says that'll take to long in going to make zombie whales.

The same way the Union has Creations and Automata.

[RuleBritannia]

I do like that idea of giving space for sub factions using the same hulls but different weapons and ethos to create differing fleets like Spartan managed with the Aussies and made a start on with the Turks.