Author Topic: Warcradle Friday Q&A Questions  (Read 8018 times)

Rich1231

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Re: Warcradle Friday Q&A Questions
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2018, 05:35:45 pm »
I'm not sure if packaging has every really meant anything to me.  Maybe in so far as its the only way to generally see what is in the box, but seeing the model itself is all that really matters to me.

I will say that the look of the game is primarily what brought me into DW, but it wasn't seeing it on a shelf, it was seeing the models online.  As it is, I don't think I've even been in a game shop in... 3 years, some time after my brother closed his shop. 
What sells a game isn't a box on a shelf, it is active players.  Active players is the only reason I played 40k (and even that wasn't enough, didn't like the game but played because it was my only option for quite a while, decided I would rather not play anything than continue to play 40k... that was probably 6-8 years ago at this point).
And now more than ever that is the case.  Even if I wanted to support a local game shop (which I will probably do, I have moved to a place where it should be an option) I'm still going to do the majority of my looking over units and deciding what looks best while online. 

Having helped my brother when he was running his shop I know how limited they are.  There were good games he found that he still couldn't justify bringing in.  Plenty of people would have him order stuff for them but "having things on the shelf" was inevitably a loosing battle. Even for a very big and popular game like 40k they can't hope to stock the whole range (even the GW stores themselves that I've been in didn't stock the full range).  If you can get one or two 2-player starter boxes actually on a shelf that would be a pretty good accomplishment, especially with the plethora of choices in miniatures games.

I guess the short version is that worrying about what something looks like on the shelf is at least 10 years out of date thinking.  A very simple package with a QR code to a multi-media rich page for the item seems like a better option, especially since that means you've got a good multi-media rich page for the item that people can find other ways too.
Blister packs where you can actually see the models I think are the best option, at least for resin/metal models, doesn't work as well for plastics.

It just seems a fools errand to try to beat a dozen well entrenched companies in a limited space by doing the same thing they are doing.  A different approach is needed.


Lots of evidence suggests you are incorrect about a few things, Blisters sales across the industry are not good, fewer products than ever are sold in blisters, as a proportion of SKU's. Products with better packaging sell far better.  And QR codes, we have them on some of our products, and we track the use. No one uses them.

Sebenko

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Re: Warcradle Friday Q&A Questions
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2018, 03:41:13 am »
And QR codes, we have them on some of our products, and we track the use. No one uses them.

This is true for pretty much all QR codes. They're a curiosity for tech geeks, and perhaps see some internal business use as 2D barcodes.

RuleBritannia

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Re: Warcradle Friday Q&A Questions
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2018, 05:04:54 am »
It is a risky strategy.  Brigade works and early Spartan worked because they both had a niche product that sold in decent amounts, that works as an online business and appeals to a limited bracket of consumers with exactly what they need so they will buy a couple of fleets.  Everyone who is into that line of steampunk shenanigans is connected, knows whats going on and was excited by rules and setting. To expand the market that's already pretty saturated you need to go big or go home and appeal to new markets that requires news aesthetics and a different style, but is definitely a risk as you are competing with the big boys with very different strategies.  Where Spartan, imho, failed was that were a great version of a big small company, raking in large demand for great models, crunchy rules, and a really interesting steampunk setting, but could not compete as a small big company which required a higher turnover over products and ideas aimed at a different market.  Certainly WC has the capacity to do that, but to do that requires a certain degree of ruthlessness and massed market appeal that disrupts some of the small business appeal of Classic Spartan.  What worked for Spartan when they were in their heyday as a big small company will not work for WC which has big ambitions and dreams.

Ruckdog

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Re: Warcradle Friday Q&A Questions
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2018, 08:33:04 am »

Sebenko

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Re: Warcradle Friday Q&A Questions
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2018, 09:08:54 am »
Quote
Q: How can the Covenant from the second edition become the Covenant of the Enlightened in the third edition. I don’t understand how Sturgeon could have changed so much?

A: The Third Edition is set in the Dystopian Age, which is a new setting for the game. Because of this, while some names and characteristics do appear that may be familiar to fans of the previous edition, it is not a continuation. The same is true for games like Wild West Exodus too - the character of Doctor Carpathian is now very different from his earlier incarnation (though, like Sturgeon, he still has aspects of his character and appearance that are familiar). 

I'm out.

RuleBritannia

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Re: Warcradle Friday Q&A Questions
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2018, 09:23:35 am »
While I completely understand Sebenko, let's see what the official characterisation is before we burn anybody on the stake.  There seems enough fluff gaps and work to be finished that I'm sure who is Sturgeon is yet.  I do agree though making him a greedy amoral power hungry science type would be a waste considering we already have Markov and Carpathian for that.

Sebenko

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Re: Warcradle Friday Q&A Questions
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2018, 09:34:09 am »
Call me when something good actually happens, instead of all this "Might not be as bad as it seems", I've only ever been disappointed by that.

RuleBritannia

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Re: Warcradle Friday Q&A Questions
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2018, 09:38:54 am »
At least they have blog posts now so it's easier to access this information?

Merlin

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Re: Warcradle Friday Q&A Questions
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2018, 06:03:07 am »
What annoys me most about the fluff, is that it doesn't appear as though they even entertained the idea that they could easily have merged the fluff of both games together, rather than just make one games fluff invalid.

Considering the grander scale of DW, everything that had happened up to v2.5 wouldn't have impacted WWX in any meaningful way. Sure the FSA would have to change to the union, because thats what Warcradle prefer happened, obviously. But thats a mostly cosmetic change really.

The war could have happened in the same way as it already had in DW and WWX was happening in the middle of a massive world war. Would it affect WWX? Not at all.

The Enlightened could easily have been an off shoot of Antartica that's gone rogue. While the rest of the world call then the League of Crimson, they refer to themselves as the Covenant of the Enlightened.

It is stupid how easy it is to integrate DW existing fluff into the WWX fluff without completely invalidating it all and starting from scratch in the WWX universe and now making it that the world tetters on the brink of war.....Which defeats the purpose of a wargame that doesn't have a war in its background.

Covertwalrus

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Re: Warcradle Friday Q&A Questions
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2018, 08:04:02 am »

 Merlin, you make a lot of sense there from a gaming point of view. I'm sure another POV was in view however.

 Sebenko, I suppose you also have a point. 

 For myself? Well, I expect that the real world will spin on and I will be doing more and more there until the game picks up again at some point in the future. Might have a weekly game or two with the locals,  though.

erloas

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Re: Warcradle Friday Q&A Questions
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2018, 01:03:46 am »
Lots of evidence suggests you are incorrect about a few things, Blisters sales across the industry are not good, fewer products than ever are sold in blisters, as a proportion of SKU's. Products with better packaging sell far better.  And QR codes, we have them on some of our products, and we track the use. No one uses them.
I'm not surprised no one uses QR codes.  But I think it really is because of what I'm going to next, no one uses them because they know what they're getting before they even get to the box.  The important bit was really having a very good web presentation of the contents of the box.  That was is on the box itself is mostly irrelevant.

For blister sales, I guess it would beg the question, are sales not good because they are in blisters or because what companies put in blisters are things people aren't going to buy.  If I'm picking up something I don't know and the only thing that is going to sell me on that product in my hand is the product itself right then right in my hand, then being able to see the model is more important than seeing some pictures. 
What most companies put in blisters are individual, and usually much more expensive, models.  I never bought GW blisters, not because they were blisters, but because the price per model was about 3x the already high cost of their models in other boxes.  I could make a pretty good "special character X" from much cheaper bits from other kits in most cases.  Or they did have rank and file types in blisters, but they were also really expensive and no where near the count needed to actually use said pack.  If my choice is buy a blister of one thing or buy the same thing in a bigger box for cheaper, of course I'm going to do the bigger box.  Which of course was the situation with most of Spartan's blisters.  All of my Battletech models came in blisters and that was just great for me.  In that game one model was just as valuable on its own as with others, so having to buy a box with multiple models, several of which I don't want or need, didn't make any sense.

But it all comes down to the fact that I don't think anyone impulsively buys anything based on the box in the store.  Unless of course that box is deeply discounted, which is not really what we're trying to look at.  I've *never* impulsively bought a box at a store because of the box, I have impulsively bought something that I knew I wanted and already knew about, the time of the purchase was impulse, but not the content.  I've seen some interesting looking models and found out more about the system, but that is much more often seeing someone playing with the models or them on display and not because of a box.
It is a great strategy for a toy isle, I've seen it work really well on kids.  Of course even then, with toys, with the most impulsive group of all, very young children, they always *always* show the toy itself.  They have the toy front and center with the box accenting the actual item.

Any focus on shelf presence just seems like you're trying to be Sears and K-Mart in the age of Amazon...

Covertwalrus

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Re: Warcradle Friday Q&A Questions
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2018, 04:07:32 am »
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Any focus on shelf presence just seems like you're trying to be Sears and K-Mart in the age of Amazon...

 But harsh there, and considering Weyland are one of the largest online retailers for gaming in the UK if not Europe, a little illogical. I don't doubt they know their market, all I'm questioning is do they know the market for DW?

 At this point, for example, I don't think the majority of customers for the "classic" models will care about packaging if they can order directly; And if Warcradle are right, new customers are going to want the new models anyway.

 All I know is, as long as I can get a Monarch, a Regent, three Dominions and a Dynasty ( For example)< i don't care if they are in bubble bags wrapped in copies of the Manchester Guardian. :D  :P

RuleBritannia

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Re: Warcradle Friday Q&A Questions
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2018, 06:05:18 am »
The only things that really need shiny boxes are the starter sets, particularly a two fleet set with all the gubbins. 

Covertwalrus

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Re: Warcradle Friday Q&A Questions
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2018, 11:18:55 pm »
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The only things that really need shiny boxes are the starter sets, particularly a two fleet set with all the gubbins. 

 Fair point. The question becomes what sort of formation would that be, given the new rules?

Merlin

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Re: Warcradle Friday Q&A Questions
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2018, 05:55:25 am »
While you are right that probably most new players will want the new models, there is a considerable amount of gamers and collectors that want the older style of models as well. 

I know a good few 40k players who hunted for older models for various reasons (to paint, or because they didn't like the newer models).

I for example, when I used to play 40k, looked at creating a large Praetorian Guard army and stalked eBay for any and all Praetorians I could get. Even went so far as to try and get some of the original 40k imperial guard models from the 80s just to see what they were like.

Why? I really disliked the Cadians. They were way too bland. Unfortunately until I could build a large enough Praetorian force, I was stuck with the Cadians. In the end 6th ed finished my involvement with 40k and the Praetorian project, though I've enough lying around to make a squad or two if I wanted.

So there is a market for the older class of models. Just not enough to justify the investment in them. So in the end every player is forced to use the over the top nonsense Warcradle will be releasing in time. (I really really hope the front of that Prussian battleship gets redesigned. It's a false hope, but I hope nonetheless)