Author Topic: DW 3.0 Open Beta Discussion  (Read 21180 times)

Ruckdog

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DW 3.0 Open Beta Discussion
« on: August 22, 2018, 11:00:56 am »
WC has put out the formal announcement on Facebook today.

« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 05:44:25 pm by Ruckdog »

RuleBritannia

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Re: DW 3.0 Open Beta: Starts 28 Aug 18
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2018, 03:34:18 am »
From second hand sources the stats sound the same, just with an unnecessary lick of new company paint so DR is now armour, CR is penetration, hull instead of hullpoints, fray instead of assault points and defence aerial/submerged for aa and cc.  Nothing wrong with it, but hoping IR or RR has just been forgotten rather than removed.

Ruckdog

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Re: DW 3.0 Open Beta: Starts 28 Aug 18
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2018, 06:03:51 pm »
The rules will be out tomorrow! We should know soon. I hope to do a deep-dive and detailed comparison post over the weekend.

Ruckdog

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Re: DW 3.0 Open Beta: Starts 28 Aug 18
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2018, 04:22:16 am »
This was just posted by WC Stuart in the official DW Facebook group:

Quote
I hope you are all getting ready for the Dystopian Wars Beta for later today!

A couple of things to go through now, rather than once it’s all online and this kind of preamble gets ignored!

It’s a Beta test. That means that while it is certainly playable, there are parts that are still in development. We will add new Encounters, Patrons, more units, more Outfitting Cards etc as the Beta progresses. It won’t all be here on day one.

You will not be able to replicate existing units. You can use your existing miniatures to count as generic faction units for the Beta Test. If you are expecting specific weapon load outs and behaviours as seen in second edition, you are going to be disappointed. On the other hand, there’s a whole bunch of new weapon load outs and behaviours to start to explore!

We’ve deliberately given you just enough to start testing. The Beta is not designed for you to immediately start replicating lists from second edition, start competitive  point match games, organise public tournaments etc. It’s a Beta, you are part of a play test group when you use it. Balance is something we will reach together over time.

It isnt version 2.6. It is a significant evolution from second edition. While it retains some of the feel of earlier Dystopian Wars editions, it introduces many new elements.

It is not a game to start recruiting the masses with! We’re pleased with the Beta, but it’s not new player friendly. It’s designed for those with a vested interest in Dystopian Wars to help contribute to the final shape of the game.

The Beta requires quite a bit of effort on behalf of the players using it. You will need to proxy dice, print cards, print the rules, print tokens, templates and more. In the full version released after the Beta finishes, all those components will be included as a high quality product. For now though, you have to make your own.

It is a Beta. It will change significantly and frequently through its run - based on your feedback.

With those caveats out the way, start loading your printers with ink, sharpen your pencils and get ready. The Beta for Dystopian Wars should be on line some time this afternoon (GMT)!

RuleBritannia

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Re: DW 3.0 Open Beta: Starts 28 Aug 18
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2018, 08:06:05 am »
Thanks for posting that Ruckdog.  A lot to chew over.

RuleBritannia

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Re: DW 3.0 Open Beta: Starts 28 Aug 18
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2018, 11:34:14 am »
https://www.dystopianwars.co.uk. its a lot to take in, and my skim gave me a headache.

Covertwalrus

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Re: DW 3.0 Open Beta: Starts 28 Aug 18
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2018, 01:36:59 am »
 Been too busy at work to read in depth, however, notes from others summarised -

 1. Critical Hits and damage work very differently, simplyfing the latter but reducing the former and their effect.

 2. Custom dice will be needed if the system continues unchanged.

 3. All ship classes use the same turn template. no mention if they all move at the same rate.

 4. Drift and Move allows ships to go backwards. Hopefully, just a glitch in Beta version.

 5. Boarding is quickly resolved but heavily biased towards defenders.

 6. Torpedoes are no longer in fixed channel form, are much more effective.

 7. Again in Beta, all ships are generic; Special wepons are mentioned as upgrades in "Outfitting Cards"

 8. Instead of national characteristics or faction advantages, these are bonuses based on the fleets "Patron".

 Apart from that, players report the "feel" of the game is still DW though quicker and with less detail.

 
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 07:27:01 am by Covertwalrus »

Ruckdog

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Re: DW 3.0 Open Beta: Starts 28 Aug 18
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2018, 11:58:23 am »
I just spend a few hours going through the rules and have posted a summary of major changes on the blog:

http://www.manbattlestations.com/blog/2018/09/01/dystopian-wars-3-0-changes/

Regarding the points that CW raised:

Been too busy at work to read in depth, however, notes from others summarised -

 1. Critical Hits and damage work very differently, simplyfing the latter but reducing the former and their effect.

 2. Custom dice will be needed if the system continues unchanged.

 3. All ship classes use the same turn template. no mention if they all move at the same rate.

 4. Drift and Move allows ships to go backwards. Hopefully, just a glitch in Beta version.

 5. Boarding is quickly resolved but heavily biased towards defenders.

 6. Torpedoes are no longer in fixed channel form, are much more effective.

 7. Again in Beta, all ships are generic; Special wepons are mentioned as upgrades in "Outfitting Cards"

 8. Instead of national characteristics or faction advantages, these are bonuses based on the fleets "Patron".

 Apart from that, players report the "feel" of the game is still DW though quicker and with less detail.

1. That's pretty much my reaction, too. It will be a lot harder to delete a model in one blow, but at the same time it will be easier to make each attack count and damage something.

2. Custom dice are intended, but not an absolute requirement. Tere are conversion charts that are easy enough to follow. It will be easier to convert than, say Halo dice.

3. Yep, all models have one template now. There is a "Unit Special Rule" (the new equivalent of a MAR) called Lubmering that makes models have to move 1" straight between each turn on the template, though.

4. The rules explicitly state that Drift cannot be backwards, and has to be in a forwards direction. Models can go in reverse up to 1/2 of their move value. Of note, the whole concept of "low speed maneuvers" and going "all stop" have been done away with in 3.0.

5. I'm not sure I'd say its heavily biased. Surface models defending against aerial or submerged assaults get a big boost from being able to use their Aerial or Submerged defenses, but otherwise I think it actually skews to the side of the attacker thanks to the fact that the attacker's dice explode while the defender's do not. Also, the impact of a successful boarding in 3.0 seems to be a bit less than it was in previous editions. On top of that, there is no longer AP to lose, multiple boarding attacks can be made per game, and you aren't prevented from boarding models that you have shot at.

6. Firing arcs in general are greatly simplified. All there is now is 360, and Fore/Aft/Port/Stbd 90s. No more fixed channel, broadside, offeset 180, etc.

7. Unit stats are, by far, the least developed part of what we were shown this week.

8. So, it's not quite clear that there won't be any national advantages, though there is no sign of them in the beta rules we have so far. The Patrons are said in the rules to operate more or less as you describe, but it's tough to say what their real impact will be without having an example to work from.

Dakkar

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Re: DW 3.0 Open Beta: Starts 28 Aug 18
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2018, 12:51:37 pm »
I really hope I can still like the game, and that extends to Firestorm soon.

I don't want DropFleet to be my best/only spaceship game option :-)

"History is-a made at night. Character is what you are in the dark!"
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Ruckdog

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Re: DW 3.0 Open Beta Discussion
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2018, 05:47:13 pm »
An updated version of the Beta rules have been uploaded. Here are the list of changes that Stuart posted on FB:

Quote
Stuart Mackaness shared a link to the group: The Sturginium Lounge - The Official Dystopian Wars Community Page.
4 hrs ·
Ahoy fellow Dystopian Wars Beta Testers! The plan going forward is to update the Beta document regularly. We are aiming for the second and fourth Thursday of each month.

The latest update to the Beta is now online. Changes from the previous revision are numerous but are as follows:

General clarification and grammar/typo corrections.

Added more terms to the glossary

Revised images for Action Dice Symbols and Critical Damage symbols to more closely match the products already being manufactured.

Changed Short Range to Closing. Unit cards have not had that terminology change as yet but will do in the next update.

Clarified Fire Arcs and Line of Sight

Updated Obscured Condition to give an additional benefit when stacked.

Clarified SRS token use and that they literally stack as well as figuratively. New illustrations to reinforce that point.

Increased range of SRS tokens.

Changed Generator Power Up to happen on a 'Counter' result. Generators made more easy to Power Up through Victory and Valour cards.

Update to the Victory and Valour deck to increase the variety and add new in-game effects. Particular note are two new Valour abilities that make repairing and generator activation easier as well as introducing the ability to piggy-back an additional activation.

Updates to generic ships to include obscured rule on Aerial and Submerged units as well as Attribute corrections.

Modifications to the effectiveness of Support weapon values and Mortars in general.

Tweak to Rockets and Torpedo effectiveness.

Revised how Initiative is earned and added an additional benefit for those that want to 'Hold Their Nerve'.

Clarified that attacks are not simultaneous.

Units can now stop and move backwards!

Revised the Escort rule.

Removed Twin Screw and Homing Torpedo Outfitting Cards

Expanded Squadron rules and explained multiple model units.

Expanded more detail on Fleet building rules.

Added two Common Encounters to the Beta.

Added the Blast/Torrent Template and resized the Turning template. It is now the same size as the second edition Medium template.

Made Boarding more deadly and broadened results.

Made criticals more effective against both Activated and yet to Activate units.

Updated Ramming profile (value of Ramming will be added to unit cards in next update, the profile is given in rules doc already).

Some pretty significant changes here. I'll have to read over the new version carefully!

RuleBritannia

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Re: DW 3.0 Open Beta Discussion
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2018, 06:08:10 pm »
Its frustrating the dice are being made when they seem unpopular with fans.  There was interesting conversation between myself and a friend after playing our first DWars 3.0 that it didn't seem that streamlined and rather clunky, that it felt like a game for fans of WWX rather than existing DWars fans, with things like the cards and the stat cards that felt cobfusing and unwelcoming to existing fans.

Covertwalrus

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Re: DW 3.0 Open Beta: Starts 28 Aug 18
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2018, 05:17:14 am »
I really hope I can still like the game, and that extends to Firestorm soon.


 Oddly enough, the way Tiny Fliers are treated as part of Assualt and Boarding rules feels very much like 1.0 Firestorm to me.

Covertwalrus

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Re: DW 3.0 Open Beta Discussion
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2018, 05:24:35 am »
Its frustrating the dice are being made when they seem unpopular with fans.

 For  areal crowd divider, the insistance on the use of teh Victory/Valor deck is far greater FWIW. In fact, the discussion between Warcradle workers and players comes down to "Are the cards that vital to play, because we don't think they are that good " and the reply "Cards are integearl (Sic) to the game - far better than dice for inititative as they are reliably random and the decks will be valuable as play items for other reasosn. Besides, cards work in the other games we like, you'll like having them in your game too!"

 
Quote
There was interesting conversation between myself and a friend after playing our first DWars 3.0 that it didn't seem that streamlined and rather clunky, that it felt like a game for fans of WWX rather than existing DWars fans, with things like the cards and the stat cards that felt cobfusing and unwelcoming to existing fans.

 That seems to be the direction - Also you read Warmahorde players on the "Sturginium Lounge" FB page saying how they love the idea of a wargame that shares the card mechanic of that game and even expands on it.
 

RuleBritannia

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Re: DW 3.0 Open Beta Discussion
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2018, 08:21:44 am »
It does feel a lot of book keeping for a streamlined game.  It seems odd to streamline the interestimg bit, rolling dice, moving and how you blow people up, and make the arguably more boring bits of book keeping like tokens and initiative more complex.

Ruckdog

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Re: DW 3.0 Open Beta Discussion
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2018, 12:21:03 am »
Here's my reaction to the recent updates to the beta rules:

http://www.manbattlestations.com/blog/2018/09/15/dw-3-0-beta-updates/

Its frustrating the dice are being made when they seem unpopular with fans.

 For  areal crowd divider, the insistance on the use of teh Victory/Valor deck is far greater FWIW. In fact, the discussion between Warcradle workers and players comes down to "Are the cards that vital to play, because we don't think they are that good " and the reply "Cards are integearl (Sic) to the game - far better than dice for inititative as they are reliably random and the decks will be valuable as play items for other reasosn. Besides, cards work in the other games we like, you'll like having them in your game too!"

 


You know, I've been thinking about the STAR/TAC/V&V mechanic a bit over the last few days. I have to say, I'm not fundamentally opposed to having these cards in DW. I'll be the first to admit that I've used them in fewer games that I have not used them, but I always sort of liked the idea. In previous editions, the STAR/TAC cards really did feel like a true "module" as I defined it on the blog earlier this year; something tacked on that could be dispensed with. As such, I appreciate the fact WC seems to have recognized this as well, and is clearly making some design choices with 3.0 to more fully integrate them into the game. Hmmmm....this might be worth a blog post all on its own!  8)