DW 3.0 Open Beta Discussion

[Sebenko]

However, it looks like the Spartan games are being shelved after an early burst of enthusiasm for something short term. 

Wouldn't be surprised if WC were expecting a much more positive fan reception than they got, and had plans based on more of the fanbase flooding back than actually happened.

[RuleBritannia]

However, it looks like the Spartan games are being shelved after an early burst of enthusiasm for something short term. 

Wouldn't be surprised if WC were expecting a much more positive fan reception than they got, and had plans based on more of the fanbase flooding back than actually happened.

I think tardines, too many rules systems and not enough models seems a valid criticism that harks back to Spartan's golden age.

I'm more curious about why it was vital to expunge fixed wing aircraft from the naval game.  Certainly it can be argued it differentiates land from sea but that is a more aesthetiuc choice.

[Covertwalrus]

Wouldn't be surprised if WC were expecting a much more positive fan reception than they got, and had plans based on more of the fanbase flooding back than actually happened.

 I'd question that: Warcradle have almost consistently said they were more interested in gaining new players than retaining the older players, same as with WWX; And that goal is certainly in sight - when you look at the most enthusiatic posts on the Facebook page and the fora, you see they are in the main  from people who have joined after the IP was taken by Warcradle. In point of fact, most of the FB Sturginuim Lounge commenters seem to have no attachment to any other hobby pages - just to Warcradle and the Lounge itself.

 But yes, they certainly didn't recieve the overwhelming gratitude that they expected for "saving" the game, though in all fairness, they have brought back a lot of desirable miniatures ( With a large number of DW coming out this past week or at least being promised ).

[RuleBritannia]

It's odd that the release of all those gorgeous Spartan models doesn't get more publicity considering their popularity and the fact they aren't cheap means they must not be a loss making venture.

[Covertwalrus]

It's odd that the release of all those gorgeous Spartan models doesn't get more publicity considering their popularity and the fact they aren't cheap means they must not be a loss making venture.

 Hard to say, TBH, as to the profitability.
 As to the publicity, the first 7 groups of releases were higly publicised, on the website and FB pages, but that was when it was practically half a dozen re-relases a fortnight . . . . Now, they are down to maybe 6 re-releases every four months, and they are even quiet about the Firestorm Armada items that they discovered recently. Most welcome part being all the Indian Raj naval units.
 
 Also some oddities - They have for example the Titan Class Trropship/Liner but also adertise another one called the Olympic. Only photos are of the Titan, and while I know there was a planned resculpt of the liner in the Spartan KS, this sounds like the same damn model to me.

[RuleBritannia]

So the Beta is what is on offer at Spiel in October.  Does mean the release of Warcradle 3.0 is going to be over 2 years after the announcment of the Dystopian age?

[RuleBritannia]

So we have a better look at some more FSA and CoA designs of the new age.  Amongst my circle the whale launcher has not gone down well, but a different paint scheme might help.

[Covertwalrus]

 OK, that is to me the most awful thing they've produced bar none.
  It bears the most passing of resemeblence to the artwork produced and as for the styel - Well, the detail features on the American and Britannian/Crown ships at least compares to the Spartan ones, and the Prussians decidely similar ( Apart from the foreshortened hulls ). . . . These look like blocks of Green Stuff applied to the hull.
 I might well have bought a model that resembled to original sketch, modified that 1960s "Futurist" house of a bridge, and used it to carry Reaper submarines ( Yes, the original fluff would permit that ).
 This? You would have to PAY me to put it in my fleet; My price would be a Dynasty, a Magnate, 3 BW Cyclops, 3 LoC Blades, a LoC Lyceum and USD2000 in cash.
 I hate to be negative, but it's just so dissapointing; Lets' hope the cruiser they planned comes out more like the art, as does the KoB carrier.

[Sebenko]

You can just make out a CoA cruiser in the top right of the last screenshot- looks more like a CoA ship, except lumpier. Hard to make out any detail or lack thereof.

[RuleBritannia]

I agree with Sebenko.  While the Covenant battleship has... issues what we can see of the cruiser looks passable, and we can't see any frigates.  Its a pity Warcradle won't share any decent pictures, instead leaving it to fans to get potato shots that many not do the ships justice.

[Sebenko]

Close up of the CoA cruiser. It's okay.

• Why is it lumpy? Not just the lumps on the side, but the aft of the hull between the engines looks bulbous too.
• Why are there so many random segmented plates- like behind the bridge/large turrets and under the fore broadside mounts? 
• Why are there so many random portholes? Two rows behind the broadside mounts look wierd, as does the single one crammed in between the front broadside and where all those plates meet. 
• Seems to be lacking those little details too, like hatches- how does anyone get to the foredeck around the fore turret? 
• Where are the smokestacks? The sweeping upward line of smokestacks has been mentioned in design documents as part of the whole CoA "ascendant" theme.

The longer I look the more I see that I dislike, ended up having to bullet point them for clarity. It's lacking the consistency and passion of old CoA models.

Its a pity Warcradle won't share any decent pictures, instead leaving it to fans to get potato shots that many not do the ships justice.

Maybe they're embarrassed.

[Covertwalrus]

Its a pity Warcradle won't share any decent pictures, instead leaving it to fans to get potato shots that many not do the ships justice.

 Well, the modern cellphone has a camera more than a match for CLR cameras of ten, fiteen years ago, so I'm not convinced of that argument. Besides, if you take a photo of a potato you have to expect it to look like a potato unless you Photoshop it until it looks like Kim Kardashian ( Whci may be harsh . . . However, they have the same skin tone . . . Come to think of it, they have aome other similariteis . . . Has anyone seen Kim and a potato in the same place at the same time . . .  I'm drifting ).
It could also be the opposite,  like Revell USA did in the 1970s - replaced artwork on boxtops with photos of poorly- assembled models , to avoid being sued by disgruntled customers for misrepresentation ( They diod this on legal advice, not from any actual litigation I might add ); That killed a lot of sales, and may well have been a contributing factor in their demise.

 In all events, that picture of the Covenant cruiser is much more like the artwork, and frankly, it does work for me - I'd use it as a Heavy Armoured Cruiser, with similar weapons to a combined Plato and Fresnel.  Maybe the other was kjust one of those "dud" designs you see in an entire range. I'd take 3, and I'll add it to the price for how much you have to pay me to take to have the "whale launcher" as it stands - Heck, knock USD500 off that two grand, I like the cruiser that much!

 All rather moot in any case, as in reply to a friend's query on FB's Sturginium Lounge, Richard of Warcradle commented -  "I don’t think we at any point have said pieces printed and painted for demo of the game rules are production models. They are simply for demonstration purposes." So,, since it's similar to the comments about FSA's return and artwork thereof, it seems Warcradle policy.

[Sebenko]

Richard of Warcradle commented -  "I don’t think we at any point have said pieces printed and painted for demo of the game rules are production models. They are simply for demonstration purposes." So,, since it's similar to the comments about FSA's return and artwork thereof, it seems Warcradle policy.

I didn't see them say they weren't, either. Why would they do a large demonstration at GenCon of all places with placeholder models? And then choose a facebook discussion thread to clarify? FB is terrible for actually getting anything seen.

[RuleBritannia]

The strategy of vague comments on facebook threads doesn't really help much.  Seem to be unreliable and unhelpful.

[Covertwalrus]

Richard of Warcradle commented -  "I don’t think we at any point have said pieces printed and painted for demo of the game rules are production models. They are simply for demonstration purposes." So,, since it's similar to the comments about FSA's return and artwork thereof, it seems Warcradle policy.

I didn't see them say they weren't, either. Why would they do a large demonstration at GenCon of all places with placeholder models? And then choose a facebook discussion thread to clarify? FB is terrible for actually getting anything seen.

 I'm not going to knock FB as it does have a pretty good miniatures scene, and it certainly doesn't charge people for sharing their wares like a certain Typical Miniatures Page; However, I do agree that given how Stuart actively defended the designs we saw with these now supposedly "stopgap" or "interim" models, ( In one memeorable comment, telling someone they had three choices - Stick with the old Spartan models, buy into the new designs, or "Go and make your own, toot toot! " . . Yes, that last is a verbatim quote ), it certainly gave the impression to amny that these were, if not actual production models, at least they were very close to such.

 Still, Spartan certainly made models just for demos, though that was more through bad management/cancellation than design . . . Anyone recall seeing the photos of those gorgeous Wierd WW2 6mm vehicles from around 2012 or so? Wonder what happened to those . . . Or that lovely tilting Canadian Mobile Airfield?

EDIT: Oh, and all the thread where that quote from Richard came from? It's been erased from FB. In fcat, all the DW FB pages bar one have had notices put on them by Stuart from Warcradle* that " Any and all discussion of new rules and miniatures will be restricted to the Sturginium Lounge".

 *Oh, I should  say for those not in the know . . . Stuart very early on asked to be made admin of every Spartan Games relevant page on FB.