DW 3.0 Pre-Launch Discussion MEGA THREAD

[Zac]

I presume that's just the house style, trying to meld the less over the top designs of Spartan with the more stylised WWX designs which are a lot squatter and exaggerated.

I don't really mind that they are more complicated designs but by shortening them they make them seem unrealistic. I just can't imagine these ships housing a crew at all

[RuleBritannia]

As always we fall back on Stuart's quote from when they took over.

"I think it's important to acknowledge that visually the game is going to embrace and evolve the more outlandish concepts from second edition Dystopian Wars rather than keeping it in the ‘could happen' vibe of the first edition. So more iceberg ships and robot dragons and less WWI German battleships. Our design team, while respectful of influences and inspiration found in the real world, are much more stylistically led rather than continuing the pseudo-historical feel of what went on before. For some that means the designs are going to be going in a direction that is not for them. The ships of the Dystopian Age are not ships you would honestly expect to find in real life (with or without Stirginium), but as playing pieces in a war game we want to make sure they are visually distinctive and exciting. In that regard Dystopian Wars will have much more in common with the design philosophies behind sci-fi and fantasy games like Warmachine than historical games like Flames of War."

[Covertwalrus]

That sub-carrier looks the business! 

Not sure if it fits in thematically with other Crown units, but it is super cool looking!

My thoughts about the submarines we've seen for the Crown as well: They could be useful for my League of Crimson, though

[Zac]

As always we fall back on Stuart's quote from when we took over.

I totally get that but the 'out-there' design elements don't require ships that are unrealistically sized.

[Ruckdog]

With the Canucks I have mixed feelings.  I like the response to the Spartan models, but the unnecessary gunk still makes the designs far too busy for me and those mini turrets seem out of place.  However, the design borrows a lot from a couple of fan designs and Warcradle make no mention of that heritage which is a big dick move in my book.  The command deck borrows heavily from Joseph Hillen/Merlin's designs on thingiverse and elsewhere, and of course the Canadian plate was originated by Dayve Walshe.  Considering how hard Warcradle has been coming down on fans and fan projects, to borrow from fan designs and not recognise that fact is pretty disgusting to me.

WRT to the similarities with Merlin's desings...there is definitely a similarity in the basic shapes, but TBH that shape isn't all that complex I have no problem believing that WC arrived at it independently. And while the Canadian design idea was originally created by Dayve, the overall design of the Candadian fleet was presumably acquired as part of the overall Dystopian Wars IP. So, I don't see any wrongs from WC in this area. In fact, I seem to recall Dayve himself gave the design his blessing on FB . I feel like I'm often taking on the role of "WC Apologist" on here, but at the same time I can't abide automatcally assigning the worst possible motives to a company that is, after all, putting in a lot of hard work and money to bring back a game that we all love. Just my $0.02!

[RuleBritannia]

With the Canucks I have mixed feelings.  I like the response to the Spartan models, but the unnecessary gunk still makes the designs far too busy for me and those mini turrets seem out of place.  However, the design borrows a lot from a couple of fan designs and Warcradle make no mention of that heritage which is a big dick move in my book.  The command deck borrows heavily from Joseph Hillen/Merlin's designs on thingiverse and elsewhere, and of course the Canadian plate was originated by Dayve Walshe.  Considering how hard Warcradle has been coming down on fans and fan projects, to borrow from fan designs and not recognise that fact is pretty disgusting to me.

WRT to the similarities with Merlin's desings...there is definitely a similarity in the basic shapes, but TBH that shape isn't all that complex I have no problem believing that WC arrived at it independently. And while the Canadian design idea was originally created by Dayve, the overall design of the Candadian fleet was presumably acquired as part of the overall Dystopian Wars IP. So, I don't see any wrongs from WC in this area. In fact, I seem to recall Dayve himself gave the design his blessing on FB . I feel like I'm often taking on the role of "WC Apologist" on here, but at the same time I can't abide automatcally assigning the worst possible motives to a company that is, after all, putting in a lot of hard work and money to bring back a game that we all love. Just my $0.02!

Its not about motive, more just a sense of recognition.  I remember something similar happening with Disney Star Wars and the use of fan designs.  Acknowledging stuff, or at least doing some work to do so just helps build fan connection, rather the constant battle WC seems to be fighting to expunge publicly referencing their inspiration.   

[Ruckdog]

Perhaps, but at the same time I don't know if it is really possible for WC to go back and acknowledge every little design cue they take from Spartan's old models. I also don't see a lot of use in castigating them for something that seems like it was coincidental to me (ie, the bridge design for the Canadian BC). Can't we all just be happy that they've shown some previews for some neat-looking ships and leave it at that (rhetorical question)?

Anyway, that's enough about that. Let's get back on topic!

The Hunt for the Prometheus sets are starting to arrive. This is the first video un-boxing that I've run across:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtkoP1bw5nc

I just got the shipping notification from DHL that my copy should be arriving this Thursday! Super excited to get my hands on it. I'll put up some pics, maybe even a video, when I get mine.

[Ruckdog]

These were just posted up on FB: 2 new carrier previews, for the Commonwealth and Enlightened:

[Covertwalrus]

 The Covenant carrier is just the existing Kepler Class with extra steps and those manned Lippisch rip-offs ( Rippisch? ).

 The Russian Commonwealth also pretty much the same as the Spartan ones in shape and arrangement.

 I could live with that, but the fine detail on some of these according to some people are somewhat lacking. And it's been answered with remarks like "the detail has to be exaggerated like with human figures, to make it fun to paint, and in any event accuracy and scale are irrelevant in wargames miniatures" and  "if you find yourself obsessing over the realism of wargames figures you should have a word with the nurses about your medication" (The former from FB, the other from a forum post - Which was taken down pretty sharpish, I admit.)
 That's all very well, however I feel it's not going to be useful for bringing in historical players in the future; I am damn certain it didn't in the past with later variants of WH40K.

 Still, I wasn't planning on getting everything Warcradle produces; My fleets are going to get some backup in the future, since there are some nice designs it seems, like many of the Starter Box ones -  but I'm happy enough with them (And 2.5) that I don't feel like any Kool-Aid.

[RuleBritannia]

Obviously Ruckdog you are correct that Warcradle doesn't need to acknowledge Spartan cues but it's nice when they acknowledge Spartan existed. But that's a personal beef over a lot of their choices that remind me of the expunging of dead pharaohs to make the present pharaoh look mightier.  With Joseph, we know that warcradle were aware of the models because they attempted a cease and desist on him.

 I could live with that, but the fine detail on some of these according to some people are somewhat lacking. And it's been answered with remarks like "the detail has to be exaggerated like with human figures, to make it fun to paint, and in any event accuracy and scale are irrelevant in wargames miniatures" and  "if you find yourself obsessing over the realism of wargames figures you should have a word with the nurses about your medication" (The former from FB, the other from a forum post - Which was taken down pretty sharpish, I admit.)
 

I wish that the team at Warcradle was better at PR.  There is nothing wrong about discussing this stuff, even if you understand a steampunk game won't be entirely accurate, but the constant attacks on people's mental health for being critical is very unpleasant, which is probably one of the reasons I end up hyper critical because that kind of stuff reduces my benefit of the doubt. 

[Ruckdog]

Obviously Ruckdog you are correct that Warcradle doesn't need to acknowledge Spartan cues but it's nice when they acknowledge Spartan existed. But that's a personal beef over a lot of their choices that remind me of the expunging of dead pharaohs to make the present pharaoh look mightier.  With Joseph, we know that warcradle were aware of the models because they attempted a cease and desist on him.

 I could live with that, but the fine detail on some of these according to some people are somewhat lacking. And it's been answered with remarks like "the detail has to be exaggerated like with human figures, to make it fun to paint, and in any event accuracy and scale are irrelevant in wargames miniatures" and  "if you find yourself obsessing over the realism of wargames figures you should have a word with the nurses about your medication" (The former from FB, the other from a forum post - Which was taken down pretty sharpish, I admit.)
 

I wish that the team at Warcradle was better at PR.  There is nothing wrong about discussing this stuff, even if you understand a steampunk game won't be entirely accurate, but the constant attacks on people's mental health for being critical is very unpleasant, which is probably one of the reasons I end up hyper critical because that kind of stuff reduces my benefit of the doubt.

That's fair, and I'm not going to defend anything WC has said via their various social media. That's there business, and I'm sure they can take care of that without my help. My only goal is try to keep the discussion here on MBS as civil as humanly possible and focused on the games and miniatures to the extent that I can

[Ruckdog]

Just put up a bunch of unboxing pictures on the blog!

http://www.manbattlestations.com/blog/2021/01/24/dystopian-wars-3-0-unboxing/

[RuleBritannia]

Hopefully, they follow firelock and stick a pack of those tokens in every box.

[Zac]

How are the target dice? They look kinda cheap

[Ruckdog]

How are the target dice? They look kinda cheap

That was my first thought as well! I think its the pearl-white plastic they used for them; it gives them a chintzy look. They actually aren't bad at all. They feel pretty nice in my hand TBH, about on par with standard Chessex dice.

I talk about this and more in the YouTube video I posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuaMKr0yIII