Author Topic: Prinz Eugen mini-campaig  (Read 2323 times)

NASAAN101

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Prinz Eugen mini-campaig
« on: November 29, 2021, 06:14:32 pm »
This is the what if Question that my Eugen is based on: When Prinz Eugen Surrendered to the British in May 1945 in Copenhagen which is in Denmark. She was then taken back to Wilhelmshaven on May 28th, to be turned over the US as a War prize. She was Escorted by light Cruiser Dido and Heavy cruiser Devonshire and Two Destroyers HMCS Iroquois and HMS Savage). My question is were was Devonshire? Was she behind Prinz Eugen or where was she at, Exactly, i haven't found anything to tell me were she was at?

What were Prinz Eugen have a Chance to Escape in to open water or were there British Sailors on board her to make sure she didn't make a run for it? But her main 8inch ammo was offloaded under British orders in Copenhagen Denmark, so she didn't have any of her big shells. So My question here is could she have gotten away or would she have been sank right off the bat? and Explain why!

Could light cruiser Nurnberg draw off Dido and one of the Destroyer Savage. Could PE draw off Devonshire and the other Destroyer Iroquois. what were the odds on them actually getting away, I know PE didn't have any shells, but she did have her torpedoes i believe? Kind of like what i told my two other friends don't sink PE, just corner her and force her to back down and give herself up, then if she doesn't pop off a few warning rounds at her again see if she's back down, then if she doesn't, then sink her! But don't sink her right off the bat.

Here is the Back story: In May 1945, Captain of PE in Copenhagen was ordered to Surrender his ship. But before he can Admiral Doenitz Sends Relief for him, with new Orders to Escape and Attempt a Break out to friendlies that are in the North sea just north of were she and Nurmberg are. But before the new captain can carry out his orders, a RN task force let by HMS Dido, HMS Devonshire, HMS Savage, Iroquois show up with orders to escort the ships to Scapa flow naval base, NOT Germany as like the real event. So PE and Nurmberg are forced to fight there way past the Allied cruisers to the open sea. But the one thing that forcing Admiral Helmuth Brinkmann hand, is the fact that he has the lives of both crews in his hands, however an old and welcomed face to Eugen's crew. As he was Eugen's first CO from when She and her larger brother Bismarck, tried to made a break out into the Altanic in May 1941. With Hans help can he be the biggest hero or will they be Re-captured!

This is the V@S game game. At a later date there will be a War at Sea game, and that will be set up like this: Waiting for them are there class sisters Admiral Hipper, Blucher, Seydlitz for Prinz and Leipzig the smaller yet older sister to Nurmberg.. as well as four other light cruisers, that will be Königsberg, Karlsruhe, Köln, Emden.But blocking the exits out of the north sea is a massive allied fleet, centered around a cruiser force of USS Baltimore, USS Pittsburgh, HMS Devonshire, HMS Exeter, HMAS Canberra, HMS Norfolk, USS Indianapolis, HMS Suffolk, HMAS Australia, HMS Caroline, HMS Centaur, HMS Carlisle, HMNAZ Ajax, HMS Dido, HMNZS Leander, HNLMS De Ruyte, HMAS Sydney, HMAS Perth, USS Boise, USS Phoenix, USS Savannah, USS Atlanta, USS Juneau, USS San Juan, USS Oakland, USS San Diego, IFN Gloria, IFN Sully, HMNZS Achilles, HNLMS Java, HNLMS Sumatra, HMS Black Prince, HMS Kenya, HMS Jamaica, IFN Le Terrible, USS Cooper, HMS Savage, IFN Le Fantasque, HMS Iroquois, USS Allen M Sumner, HMS Electra, HMS Icarus, HMS Glowworm, HMS Greyhound, HMS Griffin, HMS Hardy, HMS Hero, HMS Hunter, HMS Echo, HMS Eclipse, HMS Electra, HMS Encounter, HMS Fearless, HMAS Stuart, HMS Scott, HMS Bruce, HMS Douglas, HMS Campbell, HMS Mackay, HMS Malcolm, HMS Montrose, USS Farragut, USS Dewey, USS Macdonough, USS Monaghan, USS Aylwin.

The was I set the group up is, group one will go after Admiral Hipper, Prinz Eugen, Emden, Karlsruhe, Leipzig. That group is USS Baltimore, HMS Devonshire, HMAS Canberra, USS Indianapolis , HMAS Australia, HMS Centaur, HMNAZ Ajax, HMNZS Leander, HMAS Sydney, USS Boise, USS Savannah, USS Juneau, USS Oakland, IFN Gloria, HMNZS Achilles, HNLMS Sumatra, HMS Kenya, IFN Le Terrible, HMS Savage, HMS Iroquois, HMS Electra, HMS Glowworm, HMS Griffin, HMS Hero, HMS Echo, HMS Electra, HMS Fearless, HMS Scott, HMS Douglas, HMS Mackay, HMS Montrose, USS Dewey, USS Monaghan..

And Group 2 will go after Blücher, Seydlitz, Köln, Nürnberg, Königsberg. that group is USS Pittsburgh, HMS Exeter, HMS Norfolk, HMS Suffolk, HMS Caroline, HMS Carlisle, HMS Dido, HNLMS De Ruyte, HMAS Perth, USS Phoenix, USS Atlanta, USS San Juan, USS San Diego, IFN Sully, HNLMS Java, HMS Black Prince, HMS Jamaica, USS Cooper, IFN Le Fantasque, USS Allen M Sumner, HMS Icarus, HMS Greyhound, HMS Hardy, HMS Hunter, HMS Eclipse, HMS Encounter, HMAS Stuart, HMS Bruce, HMS Campbell, HMS Malcolm, USS Farragut, USS Macdonough, USS Aylwin.. Super Destroy Le Terrible is Destroyer leader, with US heavy cruiser Baltimore & Pittsburgh be side her in Flanking spot, the event that there able to capture the 10 ships intacted. But the big question now is, will the 10 ships be able to protect each other or will they all be sunk.. Your just going to have to wait for the answer :D
« Last Edit: November 21, 2022, 06:56:28 pm by NASAAN101 »

Ruckdog

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Re: Prinz Eugen mini-campaig
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2021, 09:09:44 am »
It's a thought provoking idea!

PE being able to escape on the strength of her torpedoes alone would be a tricky task. She has 12x tubes (if Wikipedia is to be believed), and given historical torpedo hit rates she won't get more than a handful of hits, even if she surprises her foes.

The other big challenge I see is being able to escape Allied airpower and radar coverage. By 1945, the sophistication of radar equipment as well as the Allies' experience with using it had risen dramatically. It would be much simpler for shadowing ships to find and track PE than it was during Rhineubung back in '41.

Looking forward to hearing how the War At Sea game turned out!

NASAAN101

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Re: Prinz Eugen mini-campaig
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2021, 10:30:30 am »
the Main 6 ships are Eugen, Nurmberg, light Cruiser Dido and Heavy cruiser Devonshire and Two Destroyers HMCS Iroquois and HMS Savage)

NASAAN101

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Re: Prinz Eugen mini-campaig
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2022, 01:11:47 pm »
I’ve added four more Destroyers to the mix and they are: HMS Savage, HMS Scorpion, HNoMS Stord, HMS Swift.

This hole game idea came out this: When Prinz Eugen Surrendered to the British in May 1945 in Copenhagen which is in Denmark. She was then taken back to Wilhelmshaven on May 28th, to be turned over the US as a War prize. She was Escorted by light Cruiser Dido and Heavy cruiser Devonshire and Two Destroyers HMCS Iroquois and HMS Savage). My question is were was Devonshire? Was she behind Prinz Eugen or where was she at, Exactly, i haven't found anything to tell me were she was at?

What were Prinz Eugen have a Chance to Escape in to open water or were there British Sailors on board her to make sure she didn't make a run for it? But her main 8inch ammo was offloaded under British orders in Copenhagen Denmark, so she didn't have any of her big shells. So My question here is could she have gotten away or would she have been sank right off the bat? and Explain why!

Could light cruiser Nurnberg draw off Dido and one of the Destroyer Savage. Could PE draw off Devonshire and the other Destroyer Iroquois. what were the odds on them actually getting away, I know PE didn't have any shells, but she did have her torpedoes i believe? Kind of like what i told my two other friends don't sink PE, just corner her and force her to back down and give herself up, then if she doesn't pop off a few warning rounds at her again see if she's back down, then if she doesn't, then sink her! But don't sink her right off the bat. this question has gotten me into so much trouble.
Nikki
« Last Edit: March 03, 2022, 04:17:45 pm by NASAAN101 »

grumbeast

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Re: Prinz Eugen mini-campaig
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2022, 11:08:31 pm »
I’m not sure PE could get away.. she’s probably not in top form and could only manage 32kts compared to say the S Class destroyers 36kts. Savage or Iroquis could easily shadow PE and stay out of Torp range if Dido / Devonshire couldn’t quite keep up (although they can both match PEs speed)

Also I don’t think you can underplay (as has been said) the importance of Radar.  Gone are the days of slipping into a fog bank.

So I think its an intriguing idea, but ultimately PE and Nurnberg, even if they were somehow able to get BVR would still be doomed.  Without her main armament PE is a sitting duck, Devonshire and Iroquois could pop away all day at her from outside of Torpedo range if they felt like it.

One other thing, is while PE’s crew would be running for their freedom (or so they thought), The RN crews don’t have any love for the Kreigsmarine at this point and I’m not sure they would be particularly restrained in prosecuting an attack.

Thats my tuppence worth.. was an interesting thought experiment tho

G.

NASAAN101

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Re: Prinz Eugen mini-campaig
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2022, 05:49:40 pm »
Hey grumbeast,
This question has gotten me into so much trouble with people :-) she will always be my little girl :-) you mean beyond-visual-range! I’ve never heard that!?
Nikki
« Last Edit: April 27, 2022, 07:27:43 pm by NASAAN101 »